Is it time the parents were punished as well when their teenagers murder people.

[dottypotter]

A youth has been found guilty today of stabbing a 53 year old man outside a supermarket in Redditch. Ian Kirwin.
The teenage gang had gone out looking for trouble and stabbed this man after he challenged them about their bad behaviour in a supermarket toilet where they had urinated on the floor and banged loudly on his cubicle door.
When is this thuggish and horrible behaviour going to end?

Isn't it time the parents of these feral teenagers were held to account now?
How can it be nothing to do with them when their offspring are out with knives?
Does anything ever happen to parents of these teenagers?
What happens to other children they may have are they taken away from them?

Aren't they bloody embarrassed that they have raised little shits?
Boils my piss. Nothing ever changes.
You can't even name the teenagers, everything's on the yobbos side?
Isn't it time we asked about the parents and held them partly responsible.
How will it change otherwise?

@dottypotter don't you understand that kids can have MH problems and / or also need suooort?

*support

Usually there is a reason for feral behaviour that might stem from mental health issues, neglect, addiction issues, violence, sexual/physical abuse.

Do you not think people deserve help for those issues?

Do you think they can always get help?

I mean if the child is a minor then their identity is often protected so it's not like their parents can issue a heartfelt apology to you and the general public.

You have no idea if they are or aren't beating themselves up about it. You have no idea if they have reached out to the victims family. You don't know anything about the families other than your judgemental speculation.

So if a child has been abused by their parent, by your logic @dottypotter, they shouldn't be entitled to help and support.

👏

Oh come on OP, no-one is this hard of thinking.

Why do they need help? You can't think of anything, really?

What happens to the other kids in the family while you are punishing the parents?

@dottypotter - before we all engage too much further - are you entrenched in your position?

Are you just going to bat back everything everyone says?

Or are you actually open to having a conversation?

Because the former position is really tedious, and it very much looks like that’s where you are.

Exactly even without the murder there was no respect for any other human being that day. It seems they had been causing trouble all day.
When an adult told you off in days gone by you didn't mouth off back let alone stab them?
What do parents think their kids are doing when they go out with their mates to a town centre?

yeah, same with cancer. Fuck em, why should them get help when something goes wrong with them. Why is it anyone else’s problem

Mental abuse. Physical abuse. Sexual abuse. Financial abuse. Loss of other parent. Loss of finances. Grief. Abandonment. Mental health issues. Physical disability. Learning difficulties. To name a few.

And it is someone else's problem because if you want to live in a civilised society, we help each other and try to make the whole world a better place rather than ignoring those who aren't thriving.

I can see this thread going as well as the Stop and Search thread 🙄

Yes.
That was exactly my point.

Sometimes a teenager goes off the rails despite their parents best efforts. Sometimes it's passed down through the family.

I know a family where both parents were heroin addicts and the father had been in jail for offences involving violence. Neither had worked for years and the mother had been abused as a child. Their son seemed to get his act together, got a job, had a nice girlfriend. Then he started smoking weed with his Dad and one night when they were out together they got into a fight and both ended up in prison.

It's not as simple as saying blame the parents. Each case will be different.

Back in what day @dottypotter?

When I was growing up saying the wrong thing to the wrong person got you kneecapped. And I'm in my 50s. So.

It's OK with you if they do this to you or your husband or partner then?
Think there's every right to ask questions about the parenting.
This shitty feral behaviour is like a disease in society.
Can't name them either.

Because they are individuals and you can't control what they do!!! Stupid to even consider it

It's not someone else problem and IME it's very rare for a parent to see it that way. They bare the burden of responsibility very heavily.

What it almost always is is a woman on her own with a child who's bigger and stronger than her and absolutely no support network. She's probably also from a demographic that gets ignored or fobbed off by medical professionals and schools when there is something that's their responsibility to deal with, e.g MH support or bullying and she and her child have probably suffered significant trauma to bring them to this. Is it really too much to expect a society (system) that can offer them some help?

You sneer at people needing help, but I'll bet you have loads of help raising your children.

It depends, if it can be proven the parent has done everything to try and get help to sort the issues out then maybe not so much of a punishment but in my experience the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. My DS is going through hell with local feral thugs, can't approach their parents because they end up screaming at you and threatening violence, sad thing is if the parents went to get help for their brats they'd get plenty, where is the help for victims?! DS had 2 incidents in school today, one of violence (school phoned to inform me) and another potentially far more serious incident on the bus on the way home which is being investigated - problem is the consequences are never enough.

Surely no one actually thinks like this in real life do they?

When an adult told you off in days gone by you didn't mouth off back let alone stab them

<in croaky voice> Back in my day we used to beat our children black and blue and shove them up a chimney or under the cotton machines. That sharp learnt them.

Do you have teenagers op?

Interesting question. Watching “I am a killer” documentary on Netflix where murders are examined and murderers interviewed.

Most (not all but the majority)had pitiful hideous abusive or neglectful at best childhoods. No excuse but certainly an explanation. One lady whose aunt had been brutally murdered wrote to the judge asking for clemency for her aunts murderer - she wrote it was his parents that should have been in the dock not him.

You sound really ignorant and naive to be honest

Surely it needs to be assessed as to whether you're the kind of parent who has taught, shown, asked, begged, pleaded, punished, praised, loved and cried over a teenager that you just can't help anymore; or the kind of parent who doesn't give a fuck as long as the kid is out of their way...

Sums it up perfectly. Being held accountable doesn't equal 'lock 'em up and throw away the key'. If they have clearly been doing all they could possibly have done, then they will be exonerated and then the accountability trail can be investigated further - with the result being as many on here are saying, that various authorities have been woefully negligent, so that appropriate action can then be taken to address this and (hopefully) stop it from happening again.

Just because there are a lot of very good, caring, desperate parents whose children still go massively off the rails regardless, that doesn't negate the many parents who don't care at all. I frequently see people parenting young children in such a terrible way that makes me wonder how well-adjusted and functional members of society those children will be as they grow older.