Is it time the parents were punished as well when their teenagers murder people.

[dottypotter]

A youth has been found guilty today of stabbing a 53 year old man outside a supermarket in Redditch. Ian Kirwin.
The teenage gang had gone out looking for trouble and stabbed this man after he challenged them about their bad behaviour in a supermarket toilet where they had urinated on the floor and banged loudly on his cubicle door.
When is this thuggish and horrible behaviour going to end?

Isn't it time the parents of these feral teenagers were held to account now?
How can it be nothing to do with them when their offspring are out with knives?
Does anything ever happen to parents of these teenagers?
What happens to other children they may have are they taken away from them?

Aren't they bloody embarrassed that they have raised little shits?
Boils my piss. Nothing ever changes.
You can't even name the teenagers, everything's on the yobbos side?
Isn't it time we asked about the parents and held them partly responsible.
How will it change otherwise?

@strumpert if you were in any doubt, I'm not agreeing with the OP. That's clearly a ludicrous idea. But there is a more general discussion on here now about knife crime in our communities.

I'm not talking rubbish.

If they're all from the same estate it's highly likely if one home is mouldy that others are too.

It's not always anger.

It can be fear to speak out /go against the crowd and just following along.
It can be undiagnosed severe mental health issues or personality disorders.
It can be grooming.
It can be undisclosed trauma/abuse, like sexual abuse. This links into...

It can be drug/alcohol dependency.

One of the causes of teenage boys going off the rails is the lack of male role model due to absent fathers. By this logic, we should track them all down and hold them accountable for the impact of the

There is a cost to pretending that drugs aren't harmful. Drug taking is hardly unusual amongst teens and they are taking stuff that's more stronger than in our day. (Chemical analysis of weed then and now proves this)

Bet no one suggests doing that.

Can’t work out if you are joking or just thick. Will go with the former because #benice. I bet OP has that on her SM somewhere.

You forgot the word positive in there. While I understand your point, and agree somewhat, let's face it, a lot of kids are better off and safer without their father in their lives.

Some of you have no idea of the standard of council housing.

It is grim. Was grim. And my experience is 10 years ago. And it's only got worse.

Mould on one complete outside wall. Absolutely black. Water running down the walls and dripping off the sockets and tripping the mains. That took YEARS to get fixed.

Windows that didn't fit properly. Absolutely everything fixed with silicone filler.

Moving in with no carpets and the walls not painted and black mould all over the place and being denied a grant because I was working.

Fucking class it is.

There’s a sure fire way to stop a Daily Fail journo printing an MN thread.. here you go… mention sexual assault by an NHS doctor, going to court soon.. stopped it being reported

Indeed. The rest of my comment didn't post for some reason, but I said that whilst part of me absolutely loves that idea, it's sadly not at all practical financially.

The gangster /hard man mentality needs quashed. Hard enough to carry a knife and use it to kill hard enough then to accept an adult life sentence and it should be minimum of 15yrs before time off.

I could say the same about you re thick.

A mouldy home does not mean you go out terrorising people and ending up sticking a knife in someone.
Bet those teenagers had never even heard the expression respect your elders.
If you got told off by an adult in the past you apologised, you didn't stab them.
The world has gone scarily mad.
To think these teenagers could well be fathers as well one day!! What discipline can they give.

I think you'd be surprised what goes on behind closed doors. IME those children's homes either aren't as loving as they appear or they've suffered some trauma the loving parents couldn't protect them from.

Witnessing a previous partner's DV, sexual abuse from some other relative or family friend, particularly traumatic bereavements like suicide or house fire or (often) a series of such events. Then their struggling to deal.with all that will make them a bit "odd" and lead to social alienation or bullying. Add in some SN and extreme poverty (injustice) too...Most adults wouldn't cope and we ask it of children.

I think we also underestimate the lasting effect of trauma on very young children. E.g. children adopted as babies or toddlers often struggle as teens no matter how good their subsequent care is.

Honestly there's always something, not always within the parent's control but there's always a reason. They're never just born bad IMO. Some started out more feisty than others and not everyone facing these issues will become violent, but those who do have always suffered these multiple trauma IME..

What about gang influences? Once they are teenagers gangs and friend can have a bigger influence on them than parents. If you live in a naice area and your teenager attends a naice school it is easier to keep a teenager mixing in the right circles but if you live in the middle of a big social housing estate, are a single parent out at work all day (or both parents working hard to pay the bills) then its going to be harder to keep your teenager out of trouble. That said I think questions should be asked of parents when bad things happen but many of them (not all) have probably been trying their best.

Yes, I agree that's the case for some. But that highlights the fact that "punishing the parents" is quite a complex notion to handle by law.

Ah so dense but owns a pair of rose tinted spectacles. Got it.

Perhaps take those glasses off once in a while and you will see the world isn’t black and white, but various shades of grey.

My brother was heavily into heroin in his 20s. He would steal, even hit me one time I the face, was abusive towards my parents. My parents weren't to blame for his poor choices. They were past themselves. He utilmately got clean about 20 years ago but people judged my parents wrongly at the time

www.itv.com/news/granada/2022-03-21/shocking-moments-after-yousef-makki-stabbing-to-be-broadcast-on-tv

Want to have a read of this, OP? And want these extremely wealthy parents from an affluent area of Cheshire punished too?

Gangs are organised crime. Mob bosses run those and exploit children who are vulnerable because their lives are so shit. It's nothing to do with wanting to be a hard man and everything to do with needing a sense of belonging and often food and shelter.

To combat gangs we need to deal properly with those at the top (who often won't even be in this country) and find another way to meet these children's basic needs.

Those children have likely already suffered trauma that no amount of brilliant parenting from the parent who stuck around is going to completely resolve.

@Starlitestarbright if you don't mind me asking. do you think put him down that path? Just a more risk taking personality type? Or just being young and foolish?

I was quite a risk taker when I was younger, and was often surrounded by drugs. I often think that one false move and my life could have been very different. What was it that stopped me crossing that invisible line, but not some of my friends. I've never been able to answer that question.

Thank you @Bigweekend that makes a lot of sense

Some parents are to blame, but some of these teenagers come from "nice" families, and their siblings don't do these things, so there must be more to it.

The killing of a family man in Asda has nothing to do with organised crime nor is it gang related. I don't buy into the, I've had a hard life sob story. Lots of people have it hard but don't go on to murder.