Is it time the parents were punished as well when their teenagers murder people.

[dottypotter]

A youth has been found guilty today of stabbing a 53 year old man outside a supermarket in Redditch. Ian Kirwin.
The teenage gang had gone out looking for trouble and stabbed this man after he challenged them about their bad behaviour in a supermarket toilet where they had urinated on the floor and banged loudly on his cubicle door.
When is this thuggish and horrible behaviour going to end?

Isn't it time the parents of these feral teenagers were held to account now?
How can it be nothing to do with them when their offspring are out with knives?
Does anything ever happen to parents of these teenagers?
What happens to other children they may have are they taken away from them?

Aren't they bloody embarrassed that they have raised little shits?
Boils my piss. Nothing ever changes.
You can't even name the teenagers, everything's on the yobbos side?
Isn't it time we asked about the parents and held them partly responsible.
How will it change otherwise?

How are you defining stable home life?

People don’t exist in a vacuum

Did the boys drink, do drugs?
Maybe there is nowhere free and indoors to go to so they are bored? (It's winter so kids may struggle to be out all day)
Is there's no repercussions to behaviour like underage drinking and smoking weed it's easy to see why antisocial behaviour would get worse.

I'm a single parent.

My ex had an affair.

I did not.

He introduced a slew of girlfriends and then married one.

I did not. I didn't have a relationship til my kids were (almost) adults - youngest was 17

Who gets punished? Me, who did nothing "wrong" but I'm the PWC, or the feckless father?

Also, I don't know what the rules are elsewhere but our school cannot exclude children. It's not a thing. Not even for serious incidents (that in the adult world would see them in court for a crime).

I'm all for be kind, but my god, some of our kids are having to do their best ever work to get one lousy house point, while someone who normally hits others gets a point for not hitting that morning.

Very very rarely do we see a 'stable' family home life with a violent/nasty individual. If we do, it's either drugs or bad crowd.

Most, the vast majority, are a product of their parents. Mini versions of themselves. But by all means, blame everything else around them instead.

And it's not restricted to class, having worked in private/grammar and state schools. Dickheads mostly raise dickheads no matter what class. But the violence levels you see in teens, that is a class thing IMO.

But shitty people do exist without having to have an excuse.

@strumpert I guess I'd define it as a child who has at least one loving parent who is able to instil a strong set of values, and possibly has a wider supporting community around them.

The parents should be sterilised so they can’t have more terrible children, and the terrible teens also stopped from breeding. Bad genes have a lot to answer for 😡

I can't even tell if posters are being serious or not

Advocating genocide?

Well I'm fucked then and may (hypothetically) lock myself up and throw away the key.

For all my own values and efforts, I was rehoused in the shittiest council estate for miles around.

Ah well. It's all me and mine deserve.

What a crock of absolute shite.

Way to demonise single mothers again. And it will be the mothers.

And fwiw I know who the father is of mine. For the pp who got that cheap dig in at single mothers.

I think if we had a country with fast and excellent access to MH support, parenting support, things for teenagers to do and be proud of, and a belief that they’ve a future life they can prosper in, and their parents just hadn’t bothered engaging them fair enough to prosecute them.

But until that happens you can’t prosecute them I don’t think. Especially if they’ve been begging for help and nobody was there.

You've not been here very long if you never read stories from people whose children suddenly go off the rails. There was a recent one where the daughter keeps on running away from home and staying at her boyfriend's house. The police can't force her to go home and the parents are sick with worry.
Sometimes awful things happen like bereavement and there's no support. Or there's no way to force a teenager to cooperate with that support.
My children haven't been in trouble with the police but I know that some services have issues with treating 16 and 17 year olds. Some of them treat them as kids while others as adults. There needs to be some joined up thinking here. I have heard it's like schools and children in year 6 with problems- they try and wait it out until it's somebody else's problem.

@strumpert did you see I said at least one loving parent? That includes single parents!!

OP you are so ignorant.

What about kids in care? Their care workers/social workers/foster parents should be punished? Who’re probably tackling all avenues to steer them away from crime.

What about kids who live with grandparents? They should be punished? Elderly men and women having to look after their own kids’ for whatever reason.

What about kids who’re young carers for their physically ill or mentally ill parents? They should be punished. Their parents probably have no idea what happens outside of their doors.

Our justice system is fucked. Please don’t fuck it up even more by sending innocent, probably vulnerable parents and carers into prisons or fining them for crimes they didn’t commit. Come on now.

Do you believe that people can't change? What's the point of prisons if people can not be rehabilitated?

Are you on fucking glue ?

So what is a parent who doesn't have that suppose to do about it? For example, are you going to b part.of that "wider" community supporting her and her challenging child? Or are you going to avoid her, sneer and gossip and ensure she's completely alienated?

I should have probably said "at least one loving carer" rather than parent. (ie: could include an aunt or uncle or grandparent)

This thread has at least shown up attitudes I thought were long gone.

When someone shows you who they are and all that.

Boredom is no excuse.
Plenty of people get bored they don't all go out murdering people and mouthing off to the public.

@Bigweekend I guess the wider community needs to play a part from a very young age. In primary schools all the way up to secondary.

Not sure why you're suggesting I might gossip and sneer?

I was a troubled teen, mainly because of trauma from living in a DV home with a mum with MH.

I got worse when my dad left even though he was the violent one and so it would be my mum who got into trouble because of my actions which were caused by my dads actions growing up.
Which would not be fair.

Lots of these little shits are very rich and have ‘stable’ home lives but because of that they think they’re the big man.
There was a group of posh kids who killed a homeless man not that long ago.
Crimes committed by these sorts of kids are also brushed under the carpet.

Many teens with issues will have SEND or MH issues and cannot get help for them.

My DD has no father, autism and ADHD. Fortunately she is an angel but if she wasn’t then it would be me who got into trouble and not her dad.

I get what you are saying.
Some people think that once their child turns 13 they’re longer their responsibility.
But unfortunately it’s not so black and white.

So you don't get that a child who's "loving care" is provided by an aunt or a GP will have probably suffered significant trauma before arriving in that situation or the actualn physical changes trauma causes in the brain?

Exactly @Bigweekend that's exactly what I meant. I don't have wider community support. Or parental support or family support for me.

It's fucking hard. Or at least, it was when my kids were younger.

And yet their father would be able to walk away Scot free and be the great I am taking the troubled children on when their mother got sent to jail. Can see it now. Because. Single parent. No maintenance. Min wage job. Benefits. I'd never have been able to afford to pay a fine. So I'd have ended up in the jail.