That schools should not be telling children they are born in the wrong bodies?

[WandaWomblesaurus]

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-11646881/I-asked-daughters-teachers-not-call-boy-reported-social-services.html?s=08

This is so alarming now - just how many children do we think are born in the wrong bodies?

Is this not now just science fiction?

YABU - Rainbows are magic

YANBU - It's brainwashing. No child is born in the wrong body and schools must be held to account.

@Mumof3daughters16 that must have been an awful thing to go through.

Do you worry that more and more children will go through similar the more we push the trans idea?

I find it so reassuring to read intelligent, sane responses on this thread. We are being coerced into silence on this subject, as I believe our children are being coerced into questioning their gender. More parents, people, should not be afraid to call this madness what it is - a political agenda.

a political agenda.

And who is driving it, is the question we should all be asking? And why?

I think you've been courageous in sharing your experience in this thread. Good wishes to you and your family

The numbers don’t support it?
The teenage daughter of a friend said there were several girls who identified as nonbinary or trans in her form group - way more than the 0.5 % mentioned on this thread.
I‘ve also seen several threads/ comments on this forum here whole groups of school mates identified out of their gender/ biological sex.

Sex Reassignment Surgery Market size was worth more than USD 623 million in 2022 and is projected to register over 11.5% CAGR between 2023 to 2032.

www.gminsights.com/industry-analysis/sex-reassignment-surgery-market/amp

That’s without the medical interventions and psychotherapy that goes along with it.

I'm sorry you've had to go through that. It sounds horrifying. I can completely understand why parents go along with anything their child wants after finding out that they're suicidal, it's a parent's worst nightmare. I've got a 5-year-old boy that wants to wear pink and play with girls (which is obviously all fine with me, I've bought him a very fetching pink hat and scarf to wear to school) and it's terrifying that he might be influenced by well-meaning teachers.

Out of curiosity, how did your child find out that being trans was a thing? Because obviously 15 years ago it wasn't everywhere like it is now.
Do you think it may have had a link to being on the autistic spectrum (if they are) or being same-sex attracted? Did it come out before or after puberty? Were they "very online"?
Because in the recent past, the main people that transitioned were gay men and I'm wondering if that was true for you. Nowadays it's mostly girls that transition and not always for the same reasons as the previous cohort.
Ignore me if you don't feel comfortable sharing.

@Mumof3daughters16 I hope I have not laid into you, even if I have disagreed with you about schools. People have different experiences and there are still real disagreements about how best to manage this for young people. We are all doing our best!

Sex Reassignment Surgery Market size was worth more than USD 623 million in 2022 and is projected to register over 11.5% CAGR between 2023 to 2032.

I get that the money aspect is playing a role, of course.

But it seems to me there's more at play than that. The silencing of debate, the capture of key organisations, the coaching of children online.

It feels like something bigger.

I love when these threads come to light. Because it shuts down those who continually state 'only a minority would say this is wrong', 'the majority of the UK are fully supportive of Stonewall and Mermaids' and 'you are all old and going to die out soon'.

Which have been used to have threads moved to the 'feminist' board, or deleted or just used to tell posters to STFU.

But there are so many people who are now becoming aware of the issues and are wanting to discuss it. So that they understand what is happening and how it has got so far. I was leafletting the other day to raise awareness of this petition (which is so very important as it will force the discussion about strengthening the language around the equality act) and the number of people who told me all about it, and that they were not feminists but were now well aware of different aspects was very heartening.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4722618-petition-to-update-the-equality-act-thread-2?reply=123188586

This also included men - young and old. Not just women. The UK population is becoming more and more aware of the conflicts that some of the demands from a particular group of the population.

I know of two families where the schools transitioned their daughters when the parents had no idea that the school had done so. One was explicitly against the recommendation of one daughter's mental health clinician.

This is happening despite the numerous posters who have come onto these threads and denied it, and the numerous posters who will in the future.

It is happening, just as that article highlights and parents are right to be very concerned.

Are schools set up to (a) assess this and (b) make the decisions about what should and should not be shared in relation to gender identity?

Counsellors have different professional expertise and skill sets to teachers. Miss Smith, drama teacher and form teacher to 9F should not be socially transitioning a child. No matter how well meaning she might be. Neither should the SENCO. Or the HoY. Or even the school nurse. The school nurse should be contacting the child’s GP.

I agree there’s probably something else (and I worry something rather sinister) but I do think the money aspect is responsible for the speed in the way this has expanded. I watched Dopesick last year and I couldn’t help note the parallels of getting patients hooked on lifelong drugs to make money.

However I do suspect big-pharma have piggybacked on this rather than caused it.

You are a wonderful parent and your daughter is very lucky. I’m so pleased she is thriving. I imagine I would find it very difficult and be unsure what to do if I had a trans child, but I hope I would be half as accepting and supportive as you have been. I’m sure that’s been instrumental in the positive outcome for your daughter.

Agree with this.
From my own school years, I remember a couple of openly gay kids, I remember gender non-conforming kids, sensitive boys and girls who were into football.
I also remember the discomfort caused by my own body beginning to change (earlier than my peers‘). I remember some other girls developing eating disorders.
I do wonder if any of those teenagers thought they were in the wrong body when it came to their biological sex.

The only NHS gender clinic for children was the Tavistock. It had a site in London and in Leeds. That's it.

I think you may be confused with gender clinics for adults.

In my own teen's group of friends there were 5 out of the 7 friends that had declared trans identities by age 14. Two girls had convinced other friends to be the delivery point for their binders.

I also have another friend with a daughter who went to the same school but was not part of that group who declared a trans identity.

That does not include the other friends and colleagues with daughters with trans identities. (People who I was friends and colleagues with before their children declared trans identities).

The numbers never quite stack up the way some posters wish them to be perceived. Because the issues are most of the teens I know that have declared trans identities are lesbian females with significant mental health co-morbities.

When you start looking at the rate in this segment, you begin to understand the concern. And you also then ask questions about just why research into this segment has been either non-existent or very slow in even admitting there was indeed an issue.

Even the authors of the Dutch Protocol recognised there is a significant issue here and that their treatment plan is not necessarily going to work for this segment. And by the way, the Dutch Protocol which was seen as the best treatment plan has been misapplied significantly in the current treatment plans which are constantly pushing 'affirming only' treatment. Something that needs to be discussed in the coming 'conversion therapy' bill that was resurrected this week.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4722645-kemi-to-write-to-all-tory-mps-to-insist-that-a-ban-on-trans-conversion-therapy-must-not-criminalise-parents

mumof3daughters16 I’m so sorry that people have been so prejudiced and patronising towards you on this thread.

As it is only happening in school I wouldn't even class it as a social transition.

Well, that's your view as a parent, but as an expert paediatritian Dr Cass did not agree.

And also think bout the wider context. The name (etc) change is imposed not just on the staff but on all the other children too. If you had not been told, are other children expected to keep secrets from you too? What about their own parents? Unless your child has no friends secrecy spreads beyond school.

It's not the same as a child pestering for an xbox and not being allowed to get one just because it's what they want

Well no, it is not the same. It is much more risky and complex, and not a decision that a school should override you to make. You're the parent. You felt it was best to let your children to experiment with names. Great! But what if the school had referred your children behind your back, on the assumption that you were pushing your other children towards transition?

You know the plural of anecdote isn't data right?

Look at the number of referrals to gender clinics. It is no where near to 0.5% of all children. If it were, you'd be talking somewhere in the region of 75,000 children.

Instead, referrals in the most recent year were in the region of 3000. About one child out of every five thousand. And of course only a very small proportion of those (it was about 6% in 2018 iirc) are prescribed puberty blockers.

This is a very good question. It feels like there is something big and powerful at play here.

So many governments have been persuaded to set aside logic and women’s concerns and actual harm to women and children and bring in laws to perpetuate this. But why? There seems to be an unusual amount of influence compared to any other group.

The medical market is huge which will play a part but is not the whole story. There are £millions being made available for LGBTQ organisations which is another part but it still feels like there is more to it.

This is something we need to find out more about.

So you believe that only those who are registered at gender clinics are those to be considered at risk of harm?

Is that what you are saying? That it is quite ok because the tip of the iceberg is small at the moment?

Have you considered that maybe it’s the tin foil industry looking to increase sales to milliners?

Instead, referrals in the most recent year were in the region of 3000. About one child out of every five thousand. And of course only a very small proportion of those (it was about 6% in 2018 iirc) are prescribed puberty blockers.

if those numbers are correct (and we know how tricky the numbers are), can you explain why there is a vast increase in the number of girls identifying as trans compared with the number of boys?

Previously there was a very small number of young people being referred to gender clinics and they were mostly boys. Older adult transitioners are mostly male, so a huge increase in young females that is not mirrored by an increase in older females indicates a huge change in the proportion of each sex that are trans identifying.

Why would that be? It doesn’t support the ‘greater awareness and acceptance’ argument.

In the recent census, there were equal numbers of trans men and trans women, which seems at odds with your assertation that 'adult transitioners are mostly male'.

@whereaw it was awful, and at times very dark.
I've never really thought of it like that, pushing the trans idea, so you've kind of made me think!
I do think more children are aware of gender identity now than 12/13 years ago. And I do think for a lot of them it is maybe just an exploration, or possibly trying to fit in. My youngest is 13, and in her year at school there are several children who identify as the opposite gender, or non binary. There are also lots of children who say they are gay, lesbian, bisexual, pansexual, the list goes on. When my oldest was at school, she was the only one that she or we knew off, and non binary wasn't ever mentioned. She didn't want anyone at school knowing, and this was quite distressing for her as she felt she had to join in with the typical male activities, and pretending to like things like football when all she really wanted to do was go clothes shopping and putting on make up. As being transgender at the time was very rare, the thought of it as a phase was never mentioned.
I can't think of the right word, but it seems that being transgender or non-binary is becoming more 'something', not cool or popular, but something that a lot of children are seeing as normal to be, and making it harder for parents and health professionals to tell if it's a phase or a genuine crisis. And because its almost become normal for children, they are not afraid to use a different name and pronouns. So yes, I can see that side of the debate, and I think more children will think/say they are transgender, but not necessarily go through the process.
I'm wondering how I would feel if it was like this back then, would I have seen it as a phase, as so many children now are saying they are transgender, and gender identity is talked about constantly?