That schools should not be telling children they are born in the wrong bodies?

[WandaWomblesaurus]

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-11646881/I-asked-daughters-teachers-not-call-boy-reported-social-services.html?s=08

This is so alarming now - just how many children do we think are born in the wrong bodies?

Is this not now just science fiction?

YABU - Rainbows are magic

YANBU - It's brainwashing. No child is born in the wrong body and schools must be held to account.

Overseen by teachers who have no expertise in this area whatsoever

And no responsibility for the long term outcome either, it's worth adding. If it all falls apart, it will fall to the appalling transphobes to deal with the fallout of a process that was hidden from them. These teachers will go on their merry way, socially transitioning the next kid without a care in the world.

And no responsibility for the long term outcome either, it's worth adding.

Very true

There is more to social transitioning than using a different name and pronouns. As it is only happening in school I wouldn't even class it as a social transition.
From the article it seems like all the school are doing is calling the child by their preferred name and pronouns, I think they are only looking out for the wellbeing of the child. I do think it ridiculous that they called social services, and I think they should have informed the parents. But I do think the parent is being controlling and trying to stop the child exploring who they are.
I am obviously going to have a differnet view as a parent of a transgender woman. But I have seen first hand the distress felt by my daughter, since she was very young. I also know of two other children who suffered from gender dysphoria as young children/teenagers who didn't go beyond changing their name and pronouns with friends and family who have now gone back to their usual names and pronouns to match the sex they were born with. All I'm trying to say is I think its important for children, whether they have autism or other needs or not, to be able to explore their gender identity if it is something they feel they want to do. With regard to supporting children by giving them what they want straight away, It's not the same as a child pestering for an xbox and not being allowed to get one just because it's what they want, saying no to an xbox is not the same as saying no you can't express your self by using a different name and pronouns.

Referring to a child in their chosen gender identity is surely better than turning them off school and adding to their mental distress, even if you think it's a passing phase/have reservations about trans stuff

and read to the bottom of the article to find how this kid feels today as she’s realising that this was just a passing phase and she isn’t really a boy but how on earth does she back out of this in front of the entire school? She is starting to feel embarrassed about her decision, as many kids do when they look back at certain things they did when younger.

The difference now is that she is trapped by her earlier decision and reminded of it every day. Now that’s really tough.

Wanting to have your healthy working penis cut off is a mental illness.

We just aren't allowed to call it that at the moment.

👏🏻

There's more to being anorexic than stepping on the scale a hundred times a day, but if a teacher enabled the dysmorphia by purchasing scales to only be used at school, out of the way of parents, it's pretty clear to see how affirmative messaging in a small way if terribly damaging - just pronouns, my arse.

So pleased to see this discussion happening openly. We all need to question and probe - ourselves, professionals and schools acting with supposed confidence yet zero expertise in this complex area. The stranglehold of #nodebate is over.
It's NOT transphobic to question why the sudden 4,000% increase in teenage girls deciding they hate becoming a woman? It's not transphobic to ask why trans adult groups have been given unquestioning access to schools or maternity care or women's sport to sow the seeds of born in the wrong body and that anything relating women is transphobic and must be changed?
Let's keep talking and fgs, let's centre children in our discussions and whether future sterility, body modification,limited relationship opportunities and life long drug use is the best future for them?

I really hope no one you are close to ever has any gender identity issues.
I didn't help my daughter think there was something wrong with her body, not for one second. I had sleepless nights for years, worrying about it all. It took me a long time to accept it, but if I hadn't of been there for her to talk too, to comfort her, and do so much research with her, she wouldn't be here, male or female. I had counselling myself, as in the beginning I thought I had done something wrong myself to make her feel this way.
People constantly try to be someone they are not, act how they think they should act to fit in with society. Not everyone feels they can 'just be', whether they are child or adult.
My daughter hasn't been let down by medical professionals. She had months and months of counselling before any decisions were made about blockers and hormones later down the line. If they hadn't helped her, she would be dead. I would rather have a transgender daughter than a dead son.
The hard path finished a long time ago. She is happy and healthy and that is all I want for all of my children

I think the headline is misleading, too. The children WANT to be refered to as the opposite gender. What should teachers say in this climate - no? They would lose their jobs.

So pleased to see this discussion happening openly. We all need to question and probe - ourselves, professionals and schools acting with supposed confidence yet zero expertise in this complex area. The stranglehold of #nodebate is over.

Hear hear.

Just to expand on some facts about a misconception that a previous commenter had. The Tavistock was not the only NHS gender clinic in the country, there are actually 8.

There may be waiting lists for some but the person I know got a first appointment within a couple of months of having the initial wondering that she might be trans and then was on cross sex hormones a month later. This wasn’t very long ago.

Maybe it is a bit of a postcode lottery but let’s not assume that all gender distressed young people have to wait years for an appointment because they don’t.

There are also three new major clinics being built as I understand and apparently a hospital that will focus on trans surgery particularly phalloplasty which has an extremely high (something like 70/80%) complication and failure rate.

There is also the Gendergp, a private clinic (there are a number of other private clinics as well) that I think is still operating despite being owned by two GPs that were either struck off or long term suspended for giving puberty blockers and cross sex hormones to kids without proper assessment or monitoring.

If they hadn't helped her, she would be dead. I would rather have a transgender daughter than a dead son.

Jesus but Susie Green has a lot to answer for. Isn't this parroted directly from her words?

Anyway, I'm sorry you fell for this, which isn't true. Transitioning may or may not work out for your child in the longer run. I hope they will not suffer long term effects from any treatment they've had.

YANBU OP

Children might ‘want’ all sorts of things that may cause them harm - we don’t usually agree and let them crack on. It is our job as parents to look after our children and these schools are removing that parental right.

In agreeing that a girl is really a bit, what message is the school sending to that child? See the many other excellent comments explaining why use of pronouns is part if a process of social transition that is not harmless.

It is very concerning to see people going along with the idea that if you don't affirm someone thinking that they are a different sex to the one they are born, they will definitely commit suicide. It's a very manipulative statement. It may be true in some cases, but is definitely not true in all, although I gather many kids are encouraged to present it in this way to their parents in order to compel compliance.

I would rather have a transgender daughter than a dead son.

And that line right there is why parents are terrified to question anything to do with trans.

Did you realise that children are being coached online to say that they're suicidal? I can't find it now but there's a video of a doctor in America or Canada that literally tells kids to say they're suicidal to convince their parents to do what they want.

I'm glad that your child is happy with their choices but you don't know that they wouldn't have come out the other side anyway.
I hope you and they are aware of the side effects of the drugs and surgery they've had.

Yes, one of the things Richard Bell said was that children presenting at the Tavistock started to arrive with a rehearsed script accessed from online groups and delivered to get what they wanted rather than what they needed.

The children in that article had all hit puberty. And actually yeah, at that age, I think that social experimenting with self expression is fine. Loads of people change their names - I did, but this was way back before gender ideology, I just changed it to something I though was cooler.

But my point wasn't actually that affirming gender ideology is fine, my point was that the geneder ideology cat is out of the bag and kids have already latched onto it. It is a structural problem - teachers and schools would make the news and fired for being transphobic if they refused. We cannot as parents demand that teachers call Esme by her name, if she wants to be called Lex. I understand why teachers use the name the student likes, and not the name that parents insist on using just because they chose it. Probably a better solution would be to provide kids with easier 'outs' so that they can identify back with their real sex after the phase is over. Banning self chosen names and pronouns from school will not achieve this, though.

I don't have a male child anymore. She is a woman.

To be honest, all things being equal I would rather have a physically intact and healthy child of either sex, but there's mental health to consider and anyway it's not entirely our choice, especially as our kids become adults. And none of us parents have a blueprint for this.

I have mixed feelings about "trusting the professionals", they don't all agree with each other for starters. Plus new knowledge is coming in all the time, what seemed like the best way to do things five years ago may look different now, and different again in five years time when the outcome data starts to arrive from young transitioners now.

But hey ho, we parents can only do our best with the knowledge we have at the time. And getting the best possible professional help for your child can't have been easy. I'm glad she is doing well now.

If they hadn't helped her, she would be dead. I would rather have a transgender daughter than a dead son.

This is a line pushed by some vested interests which is not supported by evidence. Young people who are struggling with their gender identity are not at higher risk of suicide. I am truly sorry that you and your DC were in so much distress. I am truly sorry that the people and agencies which are there to help and support us when we struggle, are captured by a damaging ideology. I wish you both well.

But if a child tells you they feel like they are the opposite sex, and want to be called a different name and pronouns, and you tell them it's stupid, wrong, or you don't believe them, that can cause harm to them.

It's not a choice between unquestioning affirmation or telling a gender questioning child they are stupid, wrong and you don't believe them. Both of these approaches would fail a child.

This has parallels to a gay child coming out to a teacher, and asking them not to inform their homophobic parents at home. Here, a child comes out as trans, and asks the school not to inform their transphobic parents at home.

Aside from the fact that it really isn’t the case (where in the UK is this happening exactly?), if a child expresses that their parents might hurt them because of any reason the school has a safeguarding responsibility to inform appropriate services. Not just quietly affirm.

What if the child confided their parents would be abusive if they found out their grades were low and asked the teacher not to say anything? Should the teacher just shrug their shoulders and no longer send out reports? Why would one case be a clear cut teacher says nothing and just affirms the child’s wishes and the other not raise serious red flags?

And then where there is a real irreversible risk to the child (as is the case with trans). What if the teacher found out that a 14 year old girl was having regular unprotected sex. Again, just affirm the decision, keep quiet and let the consequences play out without notifying parents or authorities?

I had no idea about a video. But my daughter is in her late 20s now. By the time she started on hormones she was 21. She had 2 suicide attempts at the age of 12 and 13, before telling me. It was terrifying.
Thank you for being kind, some people seem to have laid into me a bit. It's as if they think I was happy to have a child in crisis. I most definitely was not! But it wasn't my body, or my decisions to make.
We did so much research on everything before hand. I did express my anxieties about the hormones, and the surgery. I had severe anxiety about what could go wrong.

YANBU OP. It is terrible how teenage girls are being encouraged to think they are in the wrong body when, in my experience, a lot of the problems stem from difficulties accepting their body changes due to puberty and/or the fact that teenage girls are subjected to awful pressure in terms of body image and the effects of porn and/or because they are autistic and think that changing their gender is the answer to the problem of them feeling that they "don't fit in". The trend is there for teenage boys too.

I accept that there may be a vanishingly small number of teenagers for whom transitioning, after thorough professional investigation, may be appropriate but we are actually seeing much higher numbers at the moment which is truly frightening in terms of future implications for them.

They need proper support, not to be swept along by the latest trend of telling them that they are indeed in the wrong body without any proper medical or psychological investigation. Unfortunately, I'm in Scotland and if it wasn't for the intervention of the UK Government, it would now be legal for teenagers of 16 years and older to change gender by self-IDing, with no professional or parental involvement or consent. The SNP and Greens have a great deal to answer to on this, and I speak as a former SNP activist and SNP/Green voter.