That schools should not be telling children they are born in the wrong bodies?

[WandaWomblesaurus]

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-11646881/I-asked-daughters-teachers-not-call-boy-reported-social-services.html?s=08

This is so alarming now - just how many children do we think are born in the wrong bodies?

Is this not now just science fiction?

YABU - Rainbows are magic

YANBU - It's brainwashing. No child is born in the wrong body and schools must be held to account.

But if a child tells you they feel like they are the opposite sex, and want to be called a different name and pronouns, and you tell them it's stupid, wrong, or you don't believe them, that can cause harm to them

Really sorry to be pedantic but how can a child KNOW what it feels like to be the opposite sex? What does that even mean?

Obviously agree that no one should call their child stupid.

But to go along with that unquestionably as an adult with parenting responsibility just seems so foreign to me.

Thank you for sharing this.

But if a child tells you they feel like they are the opposite sex, and want to be called a different name and pronouns, and you tell them it's stupid, wrong, or you don't believe them, that can cause harm to them

Well, yes, I suspect it's as much help as telling an anorexic that they are not fat and not to bring it up again. But knowing that they are, in fact, not fat is an important part of approaching a medical treatment.

How about when 14-year-old Johnny (formerly Julie) gets to share accommodation with the other boys on overnight trips? Do the parents have a right to know that their daughter is sharing with the boys? If not, should all overnight trips with schools be mixed sex as apparently, it doesn't matter if males and females share. Even if their parents are unaware.

This whole thing is just going to lead to parents losing trust in schools. I've certainly lost trust already.
How do you think those religiously devout families are going to react when they realise their daughters are having to share facilities with males? The poor girls will be pulled out of school before they know what's happening. So much for inclusion.

And people who say the wrong thing are threatened. So it not surprising that people get scared of discussing it.

It's not a stretch, it's a recognised phenomenon. It's called 'transing away the gay'. Kai Shappley's mother beat him because she thought her toddler was gay. The poor boy discovered the beatings stopped when he sais he was a girl. The Tavistock staff had a dark joke that there would soon be no gay children left.

I'm astonished you don't know this.

Whole fucking cultures do it! In Iran homosexual people can chose between being transed or death (or, if they're lucky, a long prison sentence). Where have you been? How do you not know this?

"But if a child tells you they feel like they are the opposite sex, and want to be called a different name and pronouns, and you tell them it's stupid, wrong, or you don't believe them, that can cause harm to them."

Obviously people shouldn't be telling their children they are stupid.
But why is telling a child the truth about their basic biology harmful to them? This is lying to the child.

Did you miss the part where this poster explained how she approached the appropriate professionals for support?

But if a child tells you they feel like they are the opposite sex, and want to be called a different name and pronouns, and you tell them it's stupid, wrong, or you don't believe them, that can cause harm to them

So you think going along with something which is literally untrue and can never be true, is not harmful? I'm not goading, I'm trying to understand your viewpoint. If my 5'8" DD was 5 stone but said she was fat and needed lipo and a treadmill, would it be harmful if I didn't agree? And if that's different, how is it different? An anorexic genuinely believes they are fat. A gender confused person believes they are the wrong sex or in the wrong body. Why is it different?

I want to understand it I just feel like everytime I want to ask a question I might upset someone if I ask it in the wrong way.

Too slow sorry , FourTea said it better and quicker than me!

I can't find where to vote but YANBU

No child is born in the wrong body.

No human has ever changed sex.

Did you miss the part where this poster explained how she approached the appropriate professionals for support?

The problem here is who are the appropriate professionals?

Tavistock has been closed down for good reason.

Mermaids and Stonewall promote acceptance without exception.

No, why would you think that? The point is that accepting that you can be born in the wrong body does away with the need for seeking out professional help, doesn't it? It was the best solution for her child to become a trans woman and make the most of a life lived with dysmorphia - but that shouldn't be the starting point.

Sorry posted too soon.

Schools and other bodies including the NHS have bought into this ideology.

No one has defined any terms.

Mermaids, by it's own testimony in court, has no medical expertise.

So quite who these experts are I don't know.

There's a lot of misplaced trust here.

No paperwork, from Stonewall, Mermaids or anyone else claims they can.

So you’ve inspected every single resource provided by the numerous trans organisations that have embedded themselves into schools have you? Their relationship with the truth is rather shaken so I wouldn’t be so sure.

Oddly, many schools are very secretive about the materials they buy in from these organisations and won’t share them with the parents. Rather odd for a school that normally wants to involve parents in everything. Our school used to offer maths lessons and all sorts of demonstrations but on this topic they refuse to let parents even see what they are teaching the kids. A bit of a red flag.

In your inspection you must have seen some very ‘interesting’ materials. Did you come across the infamous ‘dice game’ where kids roll a dice with body parts including genitals listed and then have to come up with ‘activities’ you can do with the various body parts, like anus and mouth? That was a doozy.

This has parallels to a gay child coming out to a teacher, and asking them not to inform their homophobic parents at home. Here, a child comes out as trans, and asks the school not to inform their transphobic parents at home.

Having a homophobic or transphobic home environment can be very dangerous for a gay or trans child, and they deserve to have a safe place/a safe adult a school to confide in.

No!

So you think going along with something which is literally untrue and can never be true, is not harmful?

I really struggle with parents doing this. How are kids supposed to cope with the world where they are encouraged to believe something that isn't true and see anyone who isn't colluding in that belief as an enemy who wants to destroy them? Surely we should be trying to help children who feel this way achieve a measure of acceptance of the reality that you are the sex you are but for most purposes, you can live as you choose. But no, if you were born male you won't be able to give birth no matter what you believe or do, and if you were born female you will never be able to produce sperm, regardless of whether you might like to.

I feel bad talking in this way, I might add. I know the poster who told her story is speaking in good faith but since she volunteered the information and associated assumptions/attitudes/beliefs, I suppose it's OK to tease it out.

What is a transphobic home environment?

How do you define trans?

Is a transphobic home environment one where the adult says it's impossible to change sex and there is no wrong way to be a boy or a girl and you are perfect just as you are?

This has parallels to a gay child coming out to a teacher, and asking them not to inform their homophobic parents at home. Here, a child comes out as trans, and asks the school not to inform their transphobic parents at home.

No. As has been explained many times already, it's not just 'coming out' but beginning a process of Social Transition, which the Cass report highlights is not a neutral act and may have many serious and unintended consequences.

Overseen by teachers who have no expertise in this area whatsoever

I can absolutely understand that.
That's why if you don't follow the party line, you get shouted at and called a transphobe (see upthread for a live-action version).

The best thing you can do is ask questions and do research. Be wary of who is telling you something and why. Why don't they talk about the downsides of transition? Why are detransitioners banished? Why are parents being kept out of the loop and kids told that everyone hates them? Why are the studies that are relied on to show something usually not show that at all? Why do you think the pharmaceutical industry is so strongly behind most of this? (££$$)

None of it makes sense and you're not allowed to talk about it without abuse.

Join the feminism board if you want to know more, and be prepared for finding out more than you ever wished to know about how deep this goes.

Here's a good book about it - Trans: When Ideology Meets Reality by Helen Joyce

Good luck.

No, you don't know that girl. At least not in England.

Because in England she'd have had a massive wait to get into the Tavistock, which has been the only gender clinic for children (and they don't prescribe cross sex hormones for children).

I really do know that girl and everything I say is true.

You are completely wrong about the Tavistock being the only gender clinic in England, I am looking at the website for this gender clinic that is not the Tavistock and is part if an NHS Trust.

Funny how you’ll unquestioningly believe the illogical, yet refuse to believe actual fact.