Why do people keep having kids?

[EllaEllaEllaElla]

This isn't judgemental. I've got 2 DC and all I think about is having a third.

I have a DH who is rubbish and I think about leaving him on a weekly basis. A 5 year old with ASD who doesn't sleep. And a 1 year old who is the easiest child in the world. I work full time and have a very stressful job.

But all I can think about is a third child. I'm nearly 37 so have to get a move on. I'm finally getting some sleep after years of being totally sleep deprived. I'm finally saving some money again.

WHY WOULD I HAVE ANOTHER CHILD???

But it's all I can think about.

What is this weird psychological thing where you want to keep having kids even though life feels like total chaos already?

Is it ever a good idea to have a kid if you aren't happy in the relationship but you know you'd be a good mum to the kid and have comfortable life/stability in other ways?

Any thoughts/reflections v welcome.

@LongLostTeacher

I don’t like the snide looking down on larger families or the desire for more than 2 that sneaks in from some posters on threads like these. Making assumptions about parents not being able to afford or neglecting their children when there are more than 2 are just prejudices, similar to saying all only children are lonely.

Well for starters in this specific situation it's clearly a bad idea to have more children. The OP is very open about the fact that she knows it's not a good move.

In a more general sense, I don't think its about "looking down on" large families. But large families bring with them certain undeniable limitations to the lives of both the woman and the children. The more children a woman has, the less money, freedom and agency she has in her life. It's demonstrably true that in societies that tolerate or encourage contraception women tend to be healthier, better educated, wealthier and live longer lives. Having lots of children ties a woman down and unless she is extremely wealthy, makes it much much harder to do anything with her life other than have and look after children and makes her dangerously dependent on a man.

There are also negative impacts on the children from large families. Plenty of people will argue that large families bring benefits: they are warmer, more close-knit, more supportive etc. But invariably more children means less money to support those children which correlates with poorer outcomes.

It is therefore perfectly legitimate to ask why it is that so many women, in spite of all the evidence that having more children is generally not a great idea, continue to say they feel these urges to have them.

I don't know if it's a hangover from an evolutionary urge designed to protect the species from extinction in the days when most children died when they were infants. Maybe it is and I'm open to being convinced by anyone who has scientific evidence. But my gut instinct is that a fair amount of it is attributable to women having been reared, socialised and educated for centuries to believe that the only real purpose they have in life is to produce and raise more children.

It is entirely atavistic and instinctive. Best time to have a baby? - probably never, if you analyse the pros and cons. But we do it - we do it, because it is what all species do.

I am sorry that things are not good with your OH.

At 37.... It's your bloody hormones: last fling. It does ease off later and you think thank fuck you didn't.

Ps my easy baby turned out to be autistic...

@Thepeopleversuswork interesting responses! It really resonates with me.

Ive only just had my first baby at 30 and already am worried about them growing up! I can see how women can be tempted to have more and more when their kids get older to avoid ‘the next step’.

For most people it goes school, university, job, fun/partying, fall in love, get a house, get married, have babies. But then what? Once that baby grows up then what? You’re not ‘needed’ anymore. You may not want to live the ‘free’ life of your twenties at 50 of partying and house shares. You have a mortgage, maybe a spouse and grown up kids. Other than work and eventually maybe becoming a granny what do you do? Especially as a woman with everything being focused on the ‘babies and marriage’ stage being the ‘final goal’. So you have to pave your own way without a societal script to follow as a rough guide. Unless you are fulfilled outside of having child rearing you could easily feel redundant when the child rearing stage ends.

so I could see why the ‘urge’ would suddenly hit a woman to want more kids to prolong the ‘marriage and babies’ stage as the next stage could seem daunting. Prolonging that stage is a way to avoid the unknown after ‘marriage and babies’ stage.

Im just musing to people reading this btw! No idea if my thought process makes sense.

I don’t want another baby because, after three of them, my brain (remembering how unrelentingly hard the early years are) is just about louder than the twinge of my ovaries.

If I’d had better sleepers, it would have been a different, more expensive, story.

@Avidnamechange

For most people it goes school, university, job, fun/partying, fall in love, get a house, get married, have babies. But then what? Once that baby grows up then what? You’re not ‘needed’ anymore. You may not want to live the ‘free’ life of your twenties at 50 of partying and house shares. You have a mortgage, maybe a spouse and grown up kids. Other than work and eventually maybe becoming a granny what do you do?

Exactly this. A lot of it comes down to what you believe your "purpose" is in life. For most mothers their children are (or should be) near the top of their list of priorities of course and in any scenario it eats a huge amount of your time and identity up, but its whether you see yourself as having any value and purpose beyond that. If you feel that that's essentially all you are there for you are more likely to cling onto the idea of perpetual motherhood because it gives you purpose.

I would speculate that women who enjoyed their lives and felt they had purpose and direction before motherhood are more likely to be able to adapt to life after their children become more independent than women who feel that motherhood is the sole goal of their lives. Which is partly why I think its usually a bad idea to have kids when you're really young (ie before you've completed your education).

My feeling is that the "urge" to keep having babies even when logically it doesn't make sense has more to do with this than anything biological. But as I say I'm happy to be convinced otherwise.

I don't know, I am trying to upsize my flat and starting new job (lots going on) but all I can think of is having a baby. For me it's hitting thirty and having fears of infertility (I am childless). But many women my age are not having kids.

Seeing my SIL and her baby made me really broody.

But wanting a baby when you're childless is a completely different ballgame from wanting a(nother) baby when you already have two or three.

@RedToothBrush @Avidnamechange @Thepeopleversuswork

So much resonates - especially about something lacking in life. I'm a good wife, mum, and colleague because I'm good at being needed and at helping others. But I literally can't do anything for myself. So help my husband with his CV - yep, sort the kids nursery fees out - yep, lead projects at work, cook dinner etc etc- all fine.

Book myself a physio appointment-?? haven't managed to do it in 2 years. Haven't read a book for years. Don't have any hobbies or real interests. No exercise at all.

Anyway I'm now rambling on but yeah, I basically don't have anything about me other than caring for others. And am craving more of it. I love it. But I'm also worn out. I can see myself becoming totally strung out. But I have a weird ideal in my head of being in a busy full house and me being the loved and needed. So cringeworthy writing that down.

I would speculate that women who enjoyed their lives and felt they had purpose and direction before motherhood are more likely to be able to adapt to life after their children become more independent than women who feel that motherhood is the sole goal of their lives.

That is absolutely spot on for me. What is it with women who think that having children is the only thing worth aiming for in life?

@EllaEllaEllaElla

I don't think there's anything cringeworthy whatsoever about that.

What you've described it something experienced by most mothers. Because being a mother and wife provides a focus and a socially acceptable way of winning respect, trust and love from people. You shouldn't feel ashamed about that. That's how most women have gained purpose in their lives forever. And being needed, being busy, supporting your family are noble, good things which you should be proud of.

The problem comes (as is does for many of us) when you start to feel that being a mother is the only way for you to be valued and respected and this makes you want to prolong this at the expense of being valued in your own right. And in the nicest possible way I wonder if you ought to take some time trying to figure out what you want from life on your own terms without the constant treadmill of looking after other people all the time. It sounds like you are constantly putting others before yourself and something inside you is rebelling against this.

And by the way I haven't figured this out yet either. I also get far too much of my self worth from being a mother and a girlfriend and a friend and from my job and all the rest of it and although I'm largely happy with my life sometimes it exasperates me that there's no room left anywhere for what I want.

I'm just suggesting that the urge to have another baby is quite likely to be an urge for something else that you are misreading.

It's brainwashing pure and simple.

Women are brainwashed from a young age. We even give young girls baby dolls as toys. It's all creepy af.

This is a fair point.

I have a 15 year old and was adamant from the get go he would be an only.

Until DH had the snip in November and over Christmas I got broody 😅

You are a literal animal, idk why people are saying it's because of anything else. If a third is inconvenient then I reckon the urge will decrease. I had the same thing, would never have had a fourth, even though my last was born when I was 28.

Should I have had three kids? Absolutely fucking not. I would choose differently now. Oestrogen is a hell of a drug.

I think there is brainwasing in this direction, also brainwashing in the other direction. That's the problem these days, doesn't seem to be many moderates in any subject. The malthusian brainwashing runs just as deep as the opposite.

It’s hormonal op, when you get to the menopause it’s a huge aha moment as those caring baby making feelings are gone and you see EVERYTHING so clearly!
Please don’t do it in your circumstances

I think the questioning of purpose and value in life as a woman beyond birthing and rearing children is very valid and useful.

I reject the implication that women who have more than two children are not aware of this and do not live a beneficial life for themselves. I see women with no children struggle with purpose and direction in life. I accept that the expectation of rearing children can be a way for society to define and control women. But I do not accept that because that might be true sometimes, women should be judged for the number of children they choose to have.

I believe in freedom of choice. I do not think that means decisions should be taken without analysis, and if on reflection someone feels that they are choosing to have one child or more only as a way of defining themselves, then that probably isn’t the right choice. I think questioning why you want to do something is deeply important and to be encouraged in all areas of our lives. I do not accept that everyone who has more than two children is purely doing so as a result of lack of direction and biological urges. I find that assumption pretty offensive and would never assume that about anyone I meet in real life.

I am uncomfortable with the idea that more than three children means the children are disadvantaged. I chose to stop at three due to finances and time. Someone else in my financial position might have stopped at one because they want a grander house house or all inclusive holidays twice a year. Someone else might have had five because they don’t prioritise nice clothes and lots of activities as much as I do. Someone else in my shoes might have decided that having children into their forties is fine. Someone else might have thought I should have started in my early twenties. Who am I to judge the priorities of others? Barring neglect or abuse, people should be allowed to choose the life they wish and in fact, if that was what we were encouraged to do, it would mitigate the pressures and expectations of being a mother that you are unhappy about.

Sorry, OP, bit of a derail to your thread.

@LongLostTeacher

I reject the implication that women who have more than two children are not aware of this and do not live a beneficial life for themselves. I see women with no children struggle with purpose and direction in life. I accept that the expectation of rearing children can be a way for society to define and control women. But I do not accept that because that might be true sometimes, women should be judged for the number of children they choose to have.

I’m not saying women with more than two children don’t live a beneficial life and certainly not saying anyone should be judged or penalised for having more than a certain number of children. I am happy for women to have as many children as they can afford to support and cope with if they want to.

I am, however, sceptical of the “it’s biology what done it”, argument and the implication that women’s self preservation instincts, logic and common sense are automatically railroaded by biology while their critical faculties take a back seat.

Theres more to it this this and I do think when women are in a situation which is clearly not conducive to having another child and convince themselves another baby is the way to go that the underlying motivation is usually more about self esteem and self worth (and lack thereof) than biology.

And I will admit than when this does happen (and several friends of mine have done this) a little bit of me sometimes suspects that “it’s biology” is used as the ultimate trump card/deflection tactic to close down further discussion about why they decided another baby was what was missing from their lives.

That makes sense @Thepeopleversuswork and I think makes us in agreement to certain extent. I completely agree that biology should not be the reason for having even one child.

Actually, increases in life expectancy beyond reproductive age have very limited impact on population size. It's really fertility that drives population growth and then improvements in infant and child mortality which has almost the same effect as fertility but this is already very low in developed countries.
Fertility has declined greatly in many countries in Africa and a lot of population growth there is due to population momentum.

I always had a feeling that someone was missing, until the last baby. Then it felt like everything was right. It's so individual what is a good idea and what is not a good idea. We all have to weigh up our own circumstances.

There might be something to this. One reason I started young (and I've always been very maternal) is that I was pushed in a direction that wasn't what I really wanted to do. I just didn't care about it that much but I always wanted babies.

A few kids later I discovered another area I had a passion for and set about getting two degrees, two post-grad qualifications (and half of a third one), but my family was complete at that stage. I did manage to transfer the undergrad study I'd done to finish my first degree though, so that head start was useful.

This explains it perfectly and is exactly how I feel as well.

Yep. I'm exactly the same. I love being pregnant, so healthy and happy. I love the newborn time. I love toddlers. Basically but for a terrible accident with my first husband I would have had 10. I had 3 by 30yo. I had a 4th years later with my 2nd husband and regret not having a 5th. The only thing that stopped me was I went into fairly early menopause. I adore my children as adults and my only regret is not having a 5th.
Some women hate it and some love it.
I have noticed that after I realised I could have no more children I gave myself a lot of other things to care for - foster children ( most importantly) but also horses, puppies, other pets etc.
I'm not happy unless I am caring . I am also a weirdo so take no notice of me.

About to go to work on 5 hours sleep and being woken this morning with DS hitting me in the face. There is Weetabix on the ceiling. DH was so grumpy last night while I was trying to settle two children

Honestly, I'm baffled at myself that I'm even considering this. I think my rational brain is going to win. But it feels like I'm failing. Like I so want to be this amazing mum and have a big messy happy home - but it feels messy without so much of the happy.

I think there is more going on than just biology. It feels like trying to fix something that is a bit broken.