To put up with him to see kids 100% time

[Nevisonspad]

NC, been around a while. Looking for some support/advice please.

Been with husband over 20 years, married for 10. 2 DC, 8 and 5. Since children came along, he’s been increasingly emotionally abusive. Big cycles where he doesn’t speak to me for many weeks other than to shout that I’m a vile and nasty person. I used to argue but now I barely engage. No trigger, no rationale, he just goes into a mood and it lasts like this for weeks. I try to minimise the impact on the kids by staying cheerful and eventually he comes out of it and we’re ‘normal’ for a while, then he starts calling me a nasty piece of work again. Kids seem happy enough though I know it will have an effect on them and I hate that this demonstrates a ‘relationship’ to them. He only shouts this stuff at me, not at the kids.

No affairs or anything that I know of on either side. He’s had some big stresses in his family over the years whereas my family is tight-knit. His dad was a serial adulterer and alcoholic but they kept up appearances until his parents eventually divorced quite recently. ‘D’H hasn’t I think dealt with this, puts his dad on a pedestal and claims I have a problematic relationship with my family, which I don’t. He doesn’t have an alcohol problem and apart from all the shit he gives me is otherwise a good dad.

The years go by and at least a third of the year he isn’t speaking to me. Obviously I would have left him years ago, but I don’t want to see the kids only half the time, which is what would happen I think if I divorce him. I know it’s crap for the kids to see him shouting at me but most of the time it’s the silent treatment and I try to minimise it to the kids by just saying dad is grumpy again. (I know the silent treatment they see him giving me is also damaging, but it seems better than constant blazing rows). I’m financially ok, work full-time.

My plan is to leave when my younger one leaves home, and until then put up with it in order to see the kids 100% of the time rather than 50/50. Once they have flown the nest there is nothing keeping me here, as he knows. The ‘down’ bit of the cycle where he ignores me and shouts at me has grown longer over the years so that it makes up a bigger proportion of the year, but otherwise it hasn’t gotten worse - nothing physical.

I have a sense of humour and I’m not depressed. I’m busy with work and kids and have family and some friends, though never enough time to see friends. My closest friend knows the situation and agrees with my plan to put up with him until the youngest leaves home, then leave. I don’t act as a doormat around my ‘D’H, I avoid him as much as possible when he’s abusive.

My AIBU is can I put up with him for the next 13 years (say) to see the kids 100% of time? I’ve gotten very close to leaving at points, even engaged a solicitor, but I can’t bring myself to do anything which means I can’t live with the kids 100% of the time. On mumsnet I see lots of people saying LTB under many scenarios. I’m not physically abused, and I’m strong enough and with enough family and friend support that his emotional abuse doesn’t hurt me other than for me to think what an entitled pillock he is to impinge his moods on my and my children’s lives like this. I think there must be lots of people on mumsnet who have made this same bargain with themselves - put up with crap from their ‘D’H so as to live with their kids 100% time. Or is it somehow impossible to do so and everyone ends up leaving before the kids have left home?

Obviously he could leave me, in which case the choice is made for me. I don’t hate him, and I’m happy in myself, but the love I had for him has really ebbed away and I imagine myself single when the kids have flown. Posting now as yet again we’re 3 weeks into a ‘down’ cycle (started just after a genuinely happy Christmas) and I’m fed up with him impinging his moods on me and the kids. We’ve been to counselling, didn’t change anything.

Thanks for reading this.

AIBU - leave him, even if it means kids shared 50/50

YANBU - it’s not really getting worse, even if it is crap, so it’s reasonable to stay to see the kids 100% time.

Thanks for the responses. I can see the view is strongly that the children are being negatively affected now (which I know). What I’ve been doing is weighing up the effect on them of staying, with the assumption this does not get worse (fully aware it may well get worse), vs only seeing the kids half the time. Some posters were very quick to jump down my throat at this, assuming I’m only thinking of myself. The kids want me 100% of the time, and they are upset when I am not with them and they are just with their dad. He would want 50% - yes we have talked about this - and he does 50% the childcare (none of the life admin, as is typical, so it’s not a true 50%, but a 50% as a court would see it I think), and I think he would genuinely want half the time with them - partly because he does want to be with them, and partly to make sure I don’t ‘win’. I know over time he might back off, but initially I’m confident he would want and get them 50% time.

Seeing me 50% time isn’t what the kids would want now, and they might well get that sense of abandonment that one poster spoke about. They are very clingy with me. Many posters were quick to call me selfish - and some called me worse, which frankly felt a bit unnecessarily abusive. The kids if we split will likely have half the time with their dad, which isn’t what they want. There’s no guarantee he gets happier when we split, so they might have to spend half the time with a grump, where I can’t protect them if he starts taking it out on them.

Therefore I’m currently still conflicted. If they are with him 50% time I can’t protect them as I can if I stay, as if he starts taking his moods out on them when he can’t on me, there’s nothing I can do if we’re living apart. If we’re living together and he does this I can go to the police and protect them from him. At the moment it wouldn’t be seen as emotional abuse of them, so he would have them 50%. Yes the kids can choose aged 11/12 or so, but they’re a long way off that yet. I’m not therefore as clear as most people seem to be that leaving them to him half the time is the obvious best path and that not to have done so already makes me abusive. Neither option is good.

I think you've had some very harsh responses on this thread, agree, it's such a difficult issue

@winetomorrow have you thought of asking your daughter to keep a diary of her father's behaviour towards her?

If she was to tell a teacher how awful her father treats her, her teacher would be oblidged to report it to SS.

It might help her to spend dramatically less time with him.

Also she could flag it with your GP.

Your poor daughter and so hard for you too.

My advice & opinion for what it's worth. Talk with him
About a break up & that you wouldn't be continuing with any life admin whatsoever.

Ie he would need to do school pick up and drop off, clothes, shoes, toys, dentists, school shoes, uniform, packed lunches, play dates, snacks etc etc if he's wanting to be having them 50/50 then all of that stuff is his responsibility 50%

Or suggest that he can come and take them out For the day, afternoon or tea as often as he likes and weekend sleepovers a lot & you'll do the grunt work.

Don't make assumptions that he'll get 50/50 this isn't a given. Especially if he has to think about all the day to day stuff & will
His job allow? Will he be able to organise wrap around care etc pick ups and so on.

My ex wanted 50/50 until reality started biting. It dropped to eow and once in week for tea by 11 she didn't want to go anywhere near him anymore.

Courts do not always give 50/50 and many many men who say they want 50/50 have not thought through all that goes along with that.

Important: if you do leave and he does go 50/50 you MUST NOT facilitate this for him.

Allow him to struggle. It will be hard but you must step back. Then you can graciously accept when he steps away from 50/50

The current situation is untenable and can't continue. Not for one minute saying it's ok. It's not, but He may be grumpy & horrible because he can't stand you and things in his and your home may drastically improve on break up.

The only true & known fact is that this current situation is horrific for your kids and you.

@Nevisonspad
Could you not talk to somebody about how he treats the children now?
Maybe the RSPC? Then at least you are flagging it up officially, so if you do go to court there is evidence that he is not a great father?
It’s a difficult situation. I really would talk to somebody, it sounds like the children are already negatively affected by his behaviour.

If got abusive towards them that's a totally separate issue and he would see them 0% of the time. If he's not abusive and the kids have a happy time with him, then that's fine...but you wouldn't know that without doing it. Such a difficult situation, but the situation for them now is also not healthy.

Sorry, not sure how to quote people, to those that asked my daughter's only 6. She does have good times with her dad, but also walks on egg shells around him like I did before realizing how bad his moods had become. She has her own lawyer appointed by the court and I'm hopeful that she'll be able to be honest with her lawyer and next holidays will be shorter visits. Or miracles could happen and he could realise the damage he's doing (or realise parenting for a week is hard work and that he doesn't have enough leave to take for the whole year's holidays!). After her next meeting with her lawyer we have another round table to try and get a parenting order in place and I just have to try and be as unyielding as he is this time. 2 more days and she'll be home and I can undo as much of the damage as possible. Sorry for hijacking the thread! But hopefully it helps OP with some insight into the road ahead.

Very best of luck @winetomorrow . Hopefully your ex’s selfishness plays out in him demanding fewer days in future. Or he reforms - but that seems to be unlikely given others’ experiences. You sound like you’re doing very well for her in trying circumstances. Keep strong x

Leave him now. I grew up with this and trust me it was hell. Do the right thing.

If you have a large enough garden you can have a static caravan or garden room (with kitchenette, bathroom heating etc) fairly easily. Would he go to his new space to be grumpy so the house is calm and there’s not atmosphere and the kids are happy because you are there all the time but they can see dad pretty much as normal as well.
when they are old enough to decide how much time they want to spend with him you can then split

By the time they are aged 10/11 the children get a say and if it was50:50 they would be older to be able to ring you if needed. Also will be less clingy by that point. Less time to wait than 18.

That sucks. I know you don't want to hear it but you should leave. Don't distress yourself with worrying what might happen IF you leave. Look at things now. What you know now is that the children are suffering & the situation is not good for anyone. Think of the opportunity of you & dc having breathing space.

Op
You say that your children want you 100% of the time. Have you thought that this may be a reaction to the atmosphere in the house already rubbing off on them.
Sometimes we make decisions when we are in situations that feel right. It's only when we are removed we can see how damaging they are.

We are in a massive experiment at the moment. We don't know whether today's kids 50:50 in situations like this will say it was much better as with each parent the tension disappeared and we had fun or will say I spent every other week miserable and scared/bored

Yes exactly this, It was relatively rare for my generation to go and have 50/50 when I was young and experiencing this. All the posters on here saying they had to go through therapy and had poor self esteem from living with both parents who were not in a happy relationship. Guess what so did I! I definitely had abandonment issues with my mum who had to let us go to ours dad's. Neither then moved on to healthy relationships so I still didn't get a good role model. My dad's next relationship was worse in fact. Sometimes there's no good options when you have a dad like this and I can't blame the op for keeping the situation under her control. All situations are different and only you know what is best for your children right now op.

I think you should reassess the situation as soon as your youngest is 10. By that point, they will both have a lot more agency than they do now - and will be able to advocate for themselves more than at their current ages. The older child will probably have a phone by then and they will both have started to have more independence outside the home with friends as well so won't be 100% with you in the house anyway.

That gives you five years to get all your ducks in a row. It's a much nearer deadline than waiting till the youngest is 18, so will help you be more resilient about dealing with the current situation. And it's a long enough time for you to make serious plans and start saving up some money etc.

With a shorter deadline and getting ready for it you will also be more prepared as well if things do escalate at home and you suddenly had to split sooner.

If he really is a good dad and otherwise fine, then the next time he does this, walk right up to him (not too close, just talking distance) and tell him that you are not his whipping post or punching bag to take his bad mood out on. Tell him that he needs to go to therapy. Also tell him that you are open to couples counseling, but that he needs to go see someone to discuss his feelings with.
Unfortunately, this is a thing that some men do when they want to end the marriage, but don't have the will to do it themselves. They try and force you into being so miserable that you file and then they get to cry foul to all the people you know about how you broke up the marriage.

Your husband learned how to be an adult man from his father who was a terrible example. Staying with him for your convenience & playing the martyr is teaching your children not only that you think daddies behavior is acceptable but feel free to go ahead & emulate him. Just lather, rinse, repeat the cycle of abuse onto your grandchildren, again just to reiterate here, because your are too confrontation adverse to give your children the safe & healthy childhood they deserve. Look at your husband, look at your kids & can you accept them growing up to be just like him? Can you accept the blame for never teaching them his behavior was unacceptable? Accept the anger at you for letting them watch Daddy abuse Mummy? You aren't sucking it up for them, you are bunking off for yourself.

It’s not about you seeing the kids 100%. What you have to consider is he will get partial custody, possibly as much as 50%. Then he’ll be abusive to your kids and you won’t be there to protect them.

Don't put up with this. My father is an alcoholic and mentally abusive. He said extremely mean things to us growi

Don't put up with this. My father is an alcoholic and mentally abusive. He said extremely mean things to us growing up. My sister and I both struggled with anorexia and bulimia as kids because of his words of calling us fat. My sister was a cutter as a teen because of my dad's horrible demeanor towards us. I still struggle with body acceptance and anorexia. I'm in my 30's.

My mother was depressed growing up. She worked all the time but he took the $. She said all the time she wished she had not married him. I spent most of my life consoling her till my late 20's when I got tired of being there for her when she was depressed and having her stay with my father and not stop the abuse to her and us.

I don't talk to my parents anymore. I have them blocked on everything. I feel bad for my mom, but I'm not going to stick around with that crappy human being of a father.

So, if you truly care about your children's mental health, LEAVE. Who cares if it's 50/50. If 100% equals abuse, your just letting your children know that it's ok to be abused. You should set the example on what is NOT ok and LEAVE.

Why did you ask if you aren't even going to take the advice given?

After reading this, I still think you need to leave. If you have a son, your DH is teaching him to abuse women. He is watching. He is listening. If you have a daughter, you are teaching her that if a ma abuses you, suck it up and deal with it.

Your children are watching you and learning from you. Do you want your children be in this same scenario!? What would you want your daughter to do in this scenario!? Would you tell her "suck it up and stay"!? For real, you are setting a TERRIBLE EXAMPLE FOR YOUR CHILDREN.

@sith12

1. Sex is not something women 'give' they 'have' it. It's meant to be enjoyable for women too.
2. Men are perfectly capable of feeding themselves. Women are not a restaurant.
3. Why did you not mention listening in there? Women are not school children, they don't have to 'shut up'

Men only get "gumpy & not talking petty" with 3 things.

You might. But thankfully the men in my life are fully rounded humans with complex inner lives. And they don't believe that women not acting as support-bots is the worst thing.

Internalised misandry if you ask me.