To put up with him to see kids 100% time

[Nevisonspad]

NC, been around a while. Looking for some support/advice please.

Been with husband over 20 years, married for 10. 2 DC, 8 and 5. Since children came along, he’s been increasingly emotionally abusive. Big cycles where he doesn’t speak to me for many weeks other than to shout that I’m a vile and nasty person. I used to argue but now I barely engage. No trigger, no rationale, he just goes into a mood and it lasts like this for weeks. I try to minimise the impact on the kids by staying cheerful and eventually he comes out of it and we’re ‘normal’ for a while, then he starts calling me a nasty piece of work again. Kids seem happy enough though I know it will have an effect on them and I hate that this demonstrates a ‘relationship’ to them. He only shouts this stuff at me, not at the kids.

No affairs or anything that I know of on either side. He’s had some big stresses in his family over the years whereas my family is tight-knit. His dad was a serial adulterer and alcoholic but they kept up appearances until his parents eventually divorced quite recently. ‘D’H hasn’t I think dealt with this, puts his dad on a pedestal and claims I have a problematic relationship with my family, which I don’t. He doesn’t have an alcohol problem and apart from all the shit he gives me is otherwise a good dad.

The years go by and at least a third of the year he isn’t speaking to me. Obviously I would have left him years ago, but I don’t want to see the kids only half the time, which is what would happen I think if I divorce him. I know it’s crap for the kids to see him shouting at me but most of the time it’s the silent treatment and I try to minimise it to the kids by just saying dad is grumpy again. (I know the silent treatment they see him giving me is also damaging, but it seems better than constant blazing rows). I’m financially ok, work full-time.

My plan is to leave when my younger one leaves home, and until then put up with it in order to see the kids 100% of the time rather than 50/50. Once they have flown the nest there is nothing keeping me here, as he knows. The ‘down’ bit of the cycle where he ignores me and shouts at me has grown longer over the years so that it makes up a bigger proportion of the year, but otherwise it hasn’t gotten worse - nothing physical.

I have a sense of humour and I’m not depressed. I’m busy with work and kids and have family and some friends, though never enough time to see friends. My closest friend knows the situation and agrees with my plan to put up with him until the youngest leaves home, then leave. I don’t act as a doormat around my ‘D’H, I avoid him as much as possible when he’s abusive.

My AIBU is can I put up with him for the next 13 years (say) to see the kids 100% of time? I’ve gotten very close to leaving at points, even engaged a solicitor, but I can’t bring myself to do anything which means I can’t live with the kids 100% of the time. On mumsnet I see lots of people saying LTB under many scenarios. I’m not physically abused, and I’m strong enough and with enough family and friend support that his emotional abuse doesn’t hurt me other than for me to think what an entitled pillock he is to impinge his moods on my and my children’s lives like this. I think there must be lots of people on mumsnet who have made this same bargain with themselves - put up with crap from their ‘D’H so as to live with their kids 100% time. Or is it somehow impossible to do so and everyone ends up leaving before the kids have left home?

Obviously he could leave me, in which case the choice is made for me. I don’t hate him, and I’m happy in myself, but the love I had for him has really ebbed away and I imagine myself single when the kids have flown. Posting now as yet again we’re 3 weeks into a ‘down’ cycle (started just after a genuinely happy Christmas) and I’m fed up with him impinging his moods on me and the kids. We’ve been to counselling, didn’t change anything.

Thanks for reading this.

AIBU - leave him, even if it means kids shared 50/50

YANBU - it’s not really getting worse, even if it is crap, so it’s reasonable to stay to see the kids 100% time.

It’s no way for you or the children to live. It’s stressful and he sounds like a dementor - sucking the joy out of life. Your children are aware of his behaviour and treatment of you and they are being damaged. This is how relationships are being modelled and how they will think relationships work - it’s unhealthy. How will you give them advice in the future if you stay put? Will you tell them to remain in an unhealthy and abusive relationship? I think not, however why would they listen if you are not prepared to put them first. My advice is to seek legal advice and develop your plan to leave this year - not in 13 years. Can you take the children away for a break in school hols to a family member/friend and have some fun with them without their dad. Reframe your thinking - Are you staying put because it is easier? That is selfish. Be proactive in your life and for your children. Teach them what healthy relationships are and demonstrate good communication and boundaries. Don’t be passive in your life.

My parents weren’t abusive but they had a terrible relationship and ‘stayed together’ I really wish they hadn’t. Children pick up, see and hear things. It will affect them and probably more so as they age and realise what’s going on: also life is too short!

I decided to stay in a marriage that doesn’t make me especially happy, for the kids’ sake. I didn’t decide to stay in an abusive marriage though. There is a really big difference.

You describe your effort to stay cheerful, but there will be periods of your life when your defences are lowered and I suspect the the abuse will become unbearable when you are at your weakest. In my case, close bereavements, my own illness, difficulties with my dc, problems at work have all made it harder to bear not having the life partner I dreamed of. I can’t imagine going through the loss of my mum, whilst someone at home was shouting at me or blanking me.

From what you say, the abuse is bad enough to have brought you to the brink of leaving. He blames you; you blame him. What triggered the switch from a “genuinely happy Christmas” to the current awful situation? What “vile and nasty” act “caused” this bout of abuse to start? I would hazard a guess, nothing much. His appalling treatment of you has become a cruel habit, a vicious reflex. Sure, he can summon the energy to have a nice Christmas, probably a nice vacation too, right? Then it’s back to the same old cycle.

You are bound together in misery. Your kids come from a broken home either way, because if you stay together it’s going to remain dysfunctional - at best it might stay the same as now, at worst the abuse will get worse, you’ll sink lower, the kids will suffer because of it.

Think about it - how much if the housework and childcare does he do right now? If he isn’t already doing 50%, he’d be unlikely to pursue 50:50. Could he manage it, with his working patterns? Can you see him cooking and cleaning and organising play dates etc?

So. You and dh split up at a time and in a manner of YOUR choosing, while you still have the mental resilience to cope with the break up. (Not when he has become so abusive that one day there is a blazing row and he storms out, leaving you in a mess with two distressed kids.) You move to a 2 or 3 bedroom property near their school. It’s a massive decision and you feel guilty for disrupting the kids, stressed about the impending divorce, worried about your finances and how you’ll manage. You feel a wave of relief though. You are used to putting on a good front for the kids, and studies have shown this makes a huge difference to kids when parents split; you can show them it will all be ok and so it will. And you have everything you need to succeed- an income, friends, a close family, who rally round when they learn how horrible married life has been for years and years. You rebuild your life. Your ex has the kids one mid-week overnight and every other weekend. You share Christmas and holidays. It’s full-on when you have the kids as you are working, parenting and caring, so your kid-free weekends are when you get your housework and life admin, get batch cooking done, have a haircut, see friends. It’s hard, and you aren’t free if your ex entirely especially while the kids are so young, but you’ve capped the damage he can do to you now.

In your shoes, I like to think I’d leave him.

My AIBU is can I put up with him for the next 13 years (say) to see the kids 100% of time?

That's the wrong question. The right question is 'should I make sure that for at least half the time my children have a healthy happy home?'. You're asking about your happiness when you should be thinking about their wellbeing. The most important person in their lives is being abused right in front of their faces. What kind of relationships do you think they will have? Either abused or abusive, or they will learn grow and go no contact with both of you.

It's a dreadful situation but you are choosing it for them as well as you. You just can't.

But you think you do.

Imagine if one of your DC ends up in a relationship like this in the future. It will be because at an impressionable age they learnt that this is what relationships are like.

I was in a very similar situation and ended things a year ago. Honestly it's really hard. The times when he has our kid breaks my heart, especially when she tells me he gets angry with her and that she doesn't want to go.

BUT, he was like that when we were together and she was around his moods 24/7 rather than every other weekend. We are so much happier now, there's no atmosphere, no arguments, just love and fun and happy music in our house.

It's absolutely horrible having to facilitate contact between them when he's just a horrible human who spends his days trying to make my life harder and saying awful things about me but he is her dad and once she's older she will make her own mind up. In the meantime I breathe...do jigsaws...drink wine and catch up with friends and count the days till she's back with me when I can undo the damage by just being myself and loving her.

It is hard. But honestly the hard bits don't even compare to the absolute joy of the rest of the time when he's not around.

Good luck x

I'm so sorry your husband is abusive. I hope you'll find the strength to leave him soon.

Think about it logically:
You want to spend the next 13 years waiting for the moment you can leave. Please don't wish your life away. You don't deserve it and neither do your kids.
Your kids won't thank you for keeping them in this environment. They know or they will know you're faking your cheerfulness.
Your kids may side with your husband. What will you do then? They may grow to be abusive because of the example they have.

Please don't stay in this abusive relationship. Leave for your children and for yourself.

My mother was abusive, my fathee taking no action essentially made him complicit. He left when I was 17, old enough to move out. What that tells a child is “Oh you weren’t important enough to protect, but I am, so now you’re older I’m off”. I never saw my mother again, I saw my father maybe 4-5 times. While he didn’t abuse me, he chose to expose me to abuse when he could have stopped a great deal of that abuse whenever he wanted by leaving the marriage. So while he didn’t abuse me, I (and my siblings) don’t see him as any better than our mother. You really don’t want your children to experience that, and as a parent you really don’t want to lose your relationship with your children.

As someone from a toxic household. YABU.

my mum always said i wont be affected aswell, Im now late twenties and she has only just said sorry to me as she now knows i saw more than she knew i just kept smiling and Being happy families but it did affect how i saw my parents AND my relationships, i find myself making the same mistakes sometimes.

There’s a book that covers this I think - too good to leave too bad to stay

Splitting does mean you lose control over what happens when kids are with him
It isn’t always an easy option

For me, he went on to have family 2 with his next victim and I have to watch my kids be incorporated into that when they visit him
very painful
but I realise that’s my stuff not yours

Leave. I’d do it asap and be settled before the kids’ secondary school years. Can’t imagine he’d want the kids 50/50, he sounds crap at parenting.

I'm sure you'll have a lot of 'of course you MUST leave' posts. But people totally fail to appreciate that toxic people/relationships don't suddenly stop being toxic on divorce.

As the kids get older they'll have more out of home activities. You can pull them and you away whilst not leaving just be being busy.

It doesn't have to be 18 or whenever by the way, you can wait till your kids get a say. Around 13

(Awaits flaming)

My parents stayed together ‘for the kids’. Neither my brother or I thanked them for it and it’s definitely impacted us in different ways over the years. Myself I’ve been happier single for most of my adult life, as I won’t let my kids live like that. My brother has suffered with a lot of depression and a chat in our late teens suggested our childhood had a big impact on that.

It’s likely your DH will get tired of 50/50. Many men do. Mine did anyway, pretty soon the balance tipped to me having them more and in the last 13yrs since we split, he’s spent 7yrs living overseas as part of his job. My ex liked to give me the silent treatment too. I think it’s so abusive and is a terrible environment to raise children. It is abuse, no matter how it’s dressed up, and calling you names (my ex never did that) is 1000% abuse. It’s tough at first when you have to share kids, but you do get used to it and value your free time. It gave me a chance to get some hobbies, meet up with friends, do the cleaning so my time with kids was not impacted. It really wasn’t as bad as I imagined once I got into the routine.

I’m 46 now and my kids are 14 & 18 and time does go fast. I’m only now in a position where I’m dating again. If you really do end up staying (and I don’t advise it for you or your kids) then you don’t need to wait until 18, chances are once kids are teens / 12 plus they get a say anyway and might not want to stay with dad. Good luck.

exactly - there is something called post separation abuse

Your post seems to mostly concentrate on you not the kids. There are so many threads on here where the mum says she will stay for the the kids and there will be a load of responses from posters wishing their parents hadn't done that and how it impacted them. I used to wish my parents would get divorced.

My ex sil said she made sure the kids didn't know what was going on. Her kids did know what was going on as spoke about it to others but too scared to talk with her about it. She was the one giving the silent treatment or snapping at BIL because she was really angry with him, hated him and felt trapped. The kids are now with ex sil full time and happy because the person they live with is happy and their environment isn't tense.

☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️☝️

Is he aware of his behaviour? When he is not in a down period what does he say about himself?

This is hurting your kids, so much more than 50/50 would hurt you

Only you can answer that really. But the younger they are, the less it affects them (DC).

What it they reach teens and you decide that no you can't stay with him ? The impact will be greater then I imagine.

If you are financially independent, I would be looking to exit.

I used to think that a split would be the end of the world and I did all I could and put up with more than I should to keep us all together. If we hadn't split I really fear for my mental health.

My DC are fine. In fact I think they are better off that we split than be subject to living on eggshells / watch their mother be repeatedly disrespected / ground down / full of anxiety.

Leave it’s scary but I left a very abusive relationship at my youngest was only 8 months,I was petrified of what people might think/say it was the best decision of my life when I stepped into my new property without him and just my 3 children we had absolutely nothing!

I broke down crying on the floor not through sadness but tears of absolute joy it was incredible my life was absolutely amazing! I got soo much support that I really wasn’t expecting!!!

Leave don’t waste YOUR years you get one life!!! Live it!

No one sees their kids 100% of the time. You say you work full time - I've found it very convenient to flex my working hours to fit around when I do have DC. Having a couple of days free is not as bad as you think or it first seems, I look forward to my "days off" now. Unlikely that your husband will want 50-50 from the sounds of it. Offer a couple of days. Your DC will come back to a mum who is fresh and relaxed and delighted to see them. Dad might not be too bad a parent either one or two days a week, even if he isn't great, overall it will be better than the hell they are experiencing 100% of the time now.

How will you feel when you DC grow up and are in long term relationships where they receive the same abuse you do, because they think that's just what normal relationships are?

What makes you think he’d want 50/50? There’s no presumption of 50/50 custody after divorce. It’s becoming more common but it’s still relatively unusual. Out of all of the divorced couples I know, I only know one where the custody arrangement is 50/50.

I think some men are initially keen on it because it means they don’t have to pay CMS. But when they realise it means spending 26 weeks of the year doing solo childcare and housework they go off the idea.

This was me -I stayed too long for exactly the same reasons and received same treatment from him -stayed cheerful for the kids etc. Eventually left last year. Regret the wasted years and the effect on my kids seeing that as a normal relationship. I have now met someone lovely but has skewed my own expectations and boundaries.