To put up with him to see kids 100% time

[Nevisonspad]

NC, been around a while. Looking for some support/advice please.

Been with husband over 20 years, married for 10. 2 DC, 8 and 5. Since children came along, he’s been increasingly emotionally abusive. Big cycles where he doesn’t speak to me for many weeks other than to shout that I’m a vile and nasty person. I used to argue but now I barely engage. No trigger, no rationale, he just goes into a mood and it lasts like this for weeks. I try to minimise the impact on the kids by staying cheerful and eventually he comes out of it and we’re ‘normal’ for a while, then he starts calling me a nasty piece of work again. Kids seem happy enough though I know it will have an effect on them and I hate that this demonstrates a ‘relationship’ to them. He only shouts this stuff at me, not at the kids.

No affairs or anything that I know of on either side. He’s had some big stresses in his family over the years whereas my family is tight-knit. His dad was a serial adulterer and alcoholic but they kept up appearances until his parents eventually divorced quite recently. ‘D’H hasn’t I think dealt with this, puts his dad on a pedestal and claims I have a problematic relationship with my family, which I don’t. He doesn’t have an alcohol problem and apart from all the shit he gives me is otherwise a good dad.

The years go by and at least a third of the year he isn’t speaking to me. Obviously I would have left him years ago, but I don’t want to see the kids only half the time, which is what would happen I think if I divorce him. I know it’s crap for the kids to see him shouting at me but most of the time it’s the silent treatment and I try to minimise it to the kids by just saying dad is grumpy again. (I know the silent treatment they see him giving me is also damaging, but it seems better than constant blazing rows). I’m financially ok, work full-time.

My plan is to leave when my younger one leaves home, and until then put up with it in order to see the kids 100% of the time rather than 50/50. Once they have flown the nest there is nothing keeping me here, as he knows. The ‘down’ bit of the cycle where he ignores me and shouts at me has grown longer over the years so that it makes up a bigger proportion of the year, but otherwise it hasn’t gotten worse - nothing physical.

I have a sense of humour and I’m not depressed. I’m busy with work and kids and have family and some friends, though never enough time to see friends. My closest friend knows the situation and agrees with my plan to put up with him until the youngest leaves home, then leave. I don’t act as a doormat around my ‘D’H, I avoid him as much as possible when he’s abusive.

My AIBU is can I put up with him for the next 13 years (say) to see the kids 100% of time? I’ve gotten very close to leaving at points, even engaged a solicitor, but I can’t bring myself to do anything which means I can’t live with the kids 100% of the time. On mumsnet I see lots of people saying LTB under many scenarios. I’m not physically abused, and I’m strong enough and with enough family and friend support that his emotional abuse doesn’t hurt me other than for me to think what an entitled pillock he is to impinge his moods on my and my children’s lives like this. I think there must be lots of people on mumsnet who have made this same bargain with themselves - put up with crap from their ‘D’H so as to live with their kids 100% time. Or is it somehow impossible to do so and everyone ends up leaving before the kids have left home?

Obviously he could leave me, in which case the choice is made for me. I don’t hate him, and I’m happy in myself, but the love I had for him has really ebbed away and I imagine myself single when the kids have flown. Posting now as yet again we’re 3 weeks into a ‘down’ cycle (started just after a genuinely happy Christmas) and I’m fed up with him impinging his moods on me and the kids. We’ve been to counselling, didn’t change anything.

Thanks for reading this.

AIBU - leave him, even if it means kids shared 50/50

YANBU - it’s not really getting worse, even if it is crap, so it’s reasonable to stay to see the kids 100% time.

The kids know. They're not stupid. They pick up on atmosphere. They know he's in a mood. And they'll see how long it lasts. They'll see him not speaking to you.

They know. So do them a favour and stop putting yourself and them through this.

Ask ANYONE who was the child in this situation. Leave now

I've read posts on here from posters whose parents did what you're considering and they unanimously say that they wish that their parents had split. Not only is it a terrible burden to bear because your children know that they were the reason that you were trapped in an abusive marriage, they will start avoiding be at home because it must be awful living there. Think about what it's like when you're in a room with 2 people who don't get along. That awkwardness for 24/7 and they will start to feel dread and fear about their dad's moods. Staying for the kids is inherently selfish and only benefits the adults who are too scared to split.

You will live to bitterly regret the damage YOU have done staying with him.

Your children WILL be harmed for the whole of their lives.

They will carry this environment and atmosphere with them ALWAYS.

You are so failing them thinking this is best.

Them living in a healthy home even 50% of the time is a full thousand times better than now.

Please save your children while you can.

Be brave and save them from the future you are allowing them to face living in that house.

If a man did this, I’d think he was a gaslighty bastard.

Everyone will have different views on this.

I'm quite resilient and have loads of family support, so in your shoes I'd probably stick it out because I couldn't bear to lose my kids for 50% of the time or even less. It would depend though on how obvious it was to the kids, his behaviour, if i felt it was really massively impacting them (more so than only seeing each of us for half the week), that would push me to leave.

I think most people wouldn't make the choice i would though

I thought the same as you, put up with it so I could see DD 100% of the time. During one of his rages where he threatened to leave something clicked and I agreed. Called his parents and told them he'd be staying with them as he was leaving. The rest is history.
3 years later DD and I are a team of 2; she sees her Dad approximately once a month as he's too busy to see her more than that. I have got her into therapy as I want her to be able to discuss her feeling about the divorce without worrying about upsetting me etc.
She's 12 now, 9 when he left. Life is like night and day- we have such a happier life. Financially it's tough but I'm glad every day I got out. Please think very carefully about the impact its having on your DC. I didn't realise how much DD remembered despite my best to cover it up x

Honestly I think this sounds pretty selfish. You are choosing to be in a toxic relationship - your children don't have a choice.

It doesn't sound like you have any worries about your children's safety with their dad, this is purely about what you want.

You would rather subject your children to a horrible home life that you acknowledge is damaging them rather than have to 'share'. They are people, not possessions!! You need to put their interests first.

Why would he automatically get 50/50? With his behaviour he would get alternative weekends if he is lucky. He needs a psychology assessment, and if you decide to leave let him take you to family court for contact and push for him to have a psychological assessment. I suspect he has something underlying perhaps a grudge against women who made his poor father act so badly - there is something not right here.
next time he is shouting abuse, calmly say “well why don’t you leave?” Then walk away. This will let him know you don’t need him and would rather he was not in the home. Might make him think.

When the kids become difficult teenagers he may start doing this stuff to them.

And if they grow up seeing their Dad shout at their Mum, they may well end up doing the same to their future partners

1. Get legal advice and understand your finances and rights, do what you need to do to evidence claims in a divorce
2. Make a plan of how you would leave
3. Tell DH you are unhappy, he is unhappy and you think the way you are living now is damaging the kids, he can't behave like this and you think he should have counselling that addresses his problems
4. Leave

Couples counselling is not the same as individual counselling, being focused on saving a relationship is different to how an individual is behaving and sees their life. I'd give him a nudge to get on the track to changing his life before you leave, it's not your responsibility though, ultimately.

Your best option is to leave and hope DH sorts himself out so your kids have two functioning parents and homes, but one is better than none.

My parents were like this. It was a toxic environment. They didn’t think we were aware of it but we absolutely were, from a very young age. It has affected me and my siblings a lot. When my dad finally left a massive weight was off my shoulders and it was like the black cloud that had hovered over our house my entire childhood was gone. A shame it was many, many years too late.

Honestly, I would also hate to not be with my kids 100% of the time but I wouldn’t want to live like this. I wouldn’t want them to live like this.

My mum and dad split when I was 8 and my siblings were younger. I barely remember my parents being together. As an adult I have a great relationship with both my mum and dad and feel very lucky that they made the split as amicable as possible when we were kids. Conversely my friends parents got divorced when she was 19 after years of unhappiness and she is hugely affected. There is guilt that her parents stayed together for her and she also feels as though most of her childhood was a lie. We are well over 10 years on from that but she has sworn she will never stay in a relationship for the kids as she feels her parents (rightly or wrongly) were selfish to do so.

I'm not sure that your DC are as protected from his toxic example as you believe. I was only 7 when my parents split. But even by then I'd already learned how Dad's mood was the barometer for our homelife. DM remarried eventually and I got a completely different view of what a marriage can look like, thank goodness.

In your situation I would leave and accept seeing my kids 50-50 as a worst case scenario.
Staying is far more damaging for them and you than leaving is

I don't think for a second he will want 50/50.

Your children are unlikely to want to be with him and he will stay with him less and less.

As your children get older they will actively avoid home and be very vulnerable to acting out and self harm as they avoid the highly abusive home they live in.

They will talk to friends and teachers and they will NEVER bring friends home.

From 15/16 you will have difficulty getting them to be in the house at all as they try and stay with friends or risky situations.

They will blame you mor that him.

They know he is a horrible grumpy man and will have grown up with no expectations of him at all.

BUT YOU?????????

YOU will be the one that really failed them by not leaving when you could have made things safe, calm and better for them.

The WILL blame you.

No doubt about it.

Get organised and get your abused children out.

I'm in my 30s and still have a strained relationship with my mother because she kept us living with a horrible abusive father.

As an adult, I've spent thousands on therapy to fix the damage done by living with my father, and my mother was complicit in this damage. My 20s were full of toxic relationships because I didn't know what a healthy one looked like and my self respect was on the floor from my trauma.

It's your duty to protect your children. And you need to fight for more than 50%.

@Nevisonspad my father was financially abusive, lost the house etc. my mother, rather than LTB, stayed and behaved like your H does. Me and my sibling have been deeply affected by this. Abusive relationships, friendships, very low self esteem. My abiding memory of my mother’s face is an expression of contempt. She was complicit in his abuse and abusive herself. There was a third adult, our GM, who was loving and caring and tried her best to shield us. It mitigated some of it but it couldn’t completely mitigate the shit show I had for parents (before you think you can shield your children completely). I’m in my 5th year of therapy and am NC with my mother. By the time my father died I had been NC with him for years. Don’t regret it for even a second. Now that I’m a parent, it blows my mind how selfish they were. Me and my sibling genuinely wonder what would’ve happened to us if it weren’t for our GM.

your children are way more affected than you think.

Aw, OP, you are getting a bit of a pasting here. I hope you can take the posts in the spirit most of them are intended.
You only get one life, you are allowed to enjoy it. Your enjoyment in life must not always be secondary to what you think your children want/need. Usually, but not always (especially as in this case it would be better for the children not to be caught up in this)

@Sage396 practically a cross post.

I’m sad and angry for our childhoods

I genuinely don’t mean to paste the OP. I’m just trying to give a perspective from the other side, years ahead, so she can consider what really is best for her children.

My home life was like this. My parents stayed together and have now been married over 50 years. He mellowed over time and I don’t think it had a lasting impact on me or my sister.

Your children will grow up thinking that this is a normal relationship. They are much more likely to end up either abusing or being abused by a partner, because your husband is teaching them that this is what a relationship looks like.

You need to leave.

You are dedicating so much energy to filtering out this shit, think how much happier you will be, how much more time and energy for your kids, you will have when you;ve left. He probably won't actually want them 50:50, men rarely seem to if they're not already doing 50:50 duties.

As a kid damaged by a mother who stayed in her marriage far too long, my advice is to leave your DH. I was exposed to all that your kids are and I knew from a very early age that something wasn’t right. That environment led to all sorts of problems and eventually therapy for me and my siblings later in life.

The saddest part is it damaged our relationships with our DM. We still love her and support her but each and every one of has some difficulties in our relationship with her and that is undoubtedly due to how long she stayed in a crap and abusive marriage (no physical, but mental and emotional like yours), without putting our well-being first.

I hope you're still reading OP as I know you have had some hard truths here.

Another example played out in real life. My SIL and her ExH had a similar relationship. He was the most wonderful husband 70% of the time and then would flip, call her all the names under the sun: shout and then go silent for weeks. She maintained although he was horrible to her, he was never abusive to the children so stuck it out for reasons similar to yourself.

She eventually had a moment of clarity when she saw her DS shout at her DD in a way that mimicked her ExH so decided to leave. At that point the children were 7(her DS) and 5(her DD)

They are now 13 (DS) and 10 (DD). Her DS has been in mountains of trouble at school with behavioural issues and he started to shout at her and be physical at about 10. He would scream at her, hit, kick etc. He is in therapy and part of it is replicating the anger he saw his father show her but with added teenage testosterone and a very dysfunctional view of what relationships with adults look like.

Her DD is an absolute wallflower, cries when she gets told off or even thinks she's done something wrong and has anxiety that affects her sleep. Again in therapy and finds it hard to make friends.

Their father sees them EOW so her worry of never seeing her kids again was dumbfounded.

Instead, she has been complicit in setting them both up to have a very difficult life ahead of them in building relationships, potentially problems with the law (a very real concerns for her DS) and neither of them being able to express how they feel in a normal way.

If she could go back in time and give herself a shake, she would and have left as soon as the cycles of emotional abuse started.

My step mum was emotionally abusive to me, my dad and my brother (who is her biological child and lived there 100% of the time). My brother's mental health is an absolute mess and, as much as I love him, he can also be nasty and is a compulsive liar too. I was only there 50% of the time and I have had a string of dysfunctional relationships, anxiety problems, a history of drug abuse.

By staying you're damaging your children, possibly irreversibly. They might even grow up to be emotionally abused or even abusers themselves as this is all they've known. Please leave, fight for as much custody as you can get. You'll be rewarded by a quality relationship with your kids even if the quantity is reduced.