Shook up by death of someone I don't know

[Greengables4]

I knew who she was, she dated a guy I used to chat to a bit. I'd seen her on social media but didn't know her in person, though she had one or two mutual friends. She was pretty and seemed popular with a loving family. She lived in my area.
She committed suicide a few days ago and was only in her early 20s. I find it so heartbreaking, even if I didn't know her. It's really got me down for some reason, I like many others cannot comprehend why, but I suppose only the people who take their own lives know why, they have their reasons.
Does anybody else ever feel like this if they didn't know the person? I felt the same after Caroline Flack, chilled to the bone

I don't think it's unreasonable to feel sad upon hearing of someone's death, however they died or whoever they were.

I do, however, have an extremely low tolerance of people who essentially just have to get in on the act of grieving/emoting to feel included somehow. When I was a teenager a pupil at my school, the younger sister of one of my classmates, died in particularly shocking circumstances, and random people who didn't know her kept turning up leaving flowers at the school gates, which the family actually just found intrusive and distasteful. As my classmate said many years later, 'I completely understand that people were shocked and sad about what happened and that it might really prey on someone's mind after reading it in the news, but when they started turning up and leaving teddy bears and messages that said 'Goodnight princess' for [name] when they hadn't even known she existed until they heard about their death, it turned into grief tourism and we just wanted them to fuck off.'

Suicide is a deeply horrible thing, for some people it is distant, and unexamined it does little harm, but the closer it gets to you and touches your life the more disturbing it is. You are being human by reacting to it as you have OP.

I have been affected by suicide in my family, and I naturally say committed suicide, (although I try not to). I know the history that suicide was once considered a sin or a crime but that's not what I think of when I use it. It hasn't been a sin or a crime in my lifetime so why would I? I think more of committed as it is relevant to marriage or the way people commit to something. It makes me think that the action was considered, they committed to it and strangely I find peace in that. For what it's worth.

Yes hearing that someone has taken their own lives always affects me badly. I think that’s partly because I lost a family member to suicide, but I just think that it’s a particularly tragic end to a life because that person must have been suffering in silence for so long. 😞

I think suicide, especially of a young person without obvious reason can effect any number of people no matter how tenuous their connection.

On some level it's a dark unspoken fear that we could lose someone close to us and its difficult for it to be pushed into our awareness.

I have been attending bereaved by suicide support groups for 4 years now and can attest many bereaved by suicide find the phrase 'committed suicide' very difficult to hear, not all, it doesn't bother me much now but it's a phrase I would never use myself. Especially not to someone else grieving.

I don't see it as policing language but helping to spread awareness of how to talk about suicide and to those grieving.

It's an emotional minefield that can be triggered by almost anything, so much so that many stop trying and avoid people desperately in need of support, and those that need support isolating themselves.

There's no harm in pointing out what can unintentionally be heard as an accusation of sin and criminality

It would be weirder to not be saddened by it.. this is a very normal human response.
I felt the same when a young mum hung herself a few years ago, knew of her but never met her.. two beautiful girls 2 and 4, seemed like a wonderful mum, load of loving family around her. So tragic but sometimes we can't find a reason, and that feels scary. Only she knew why.

I think suicide shows us that people who might seem happy are actually desperately desperate. It makes us think about whether or not we could have helped prevent their death. It's always such a sad situation. I have friends whose parents have taken their own lives, but I can only imagine how I would feel if a friends child took their own life. I think it would shake me to the core as it's a concern I have with one of my own DC.

I totally understand how you feel as you do OP. I think suicide is such a complicated thing it's not surprising you can't make sense of your emotions right now.

The last time DH told me to shut the fuck up was when his cousin took her own life and didn't have a Catholic funeral. I said it was probably because she took her own life. We got no further in talking about it. As I said, suicide is always awful, always causes a pain to those left behind, and those taking their own life know this, yet also know their pain is even greater.

I don't mean to offend anyone with this post, it's just my personal view.

I don't, but everyone is different and I'm sorry you are feeling upset. 💐

I agree with @Move22 . OP I really do understand.Any young death is truly tragic and I personally know people who made very serious attempts at ending their own life and sadly 3-4 who did take their own life .

Thank you for explaining.

I think the PP sounded rude to come on, say that, not explain why and then end with a breezy 'thanks all', like she was everyone's line manager.

Well not a memo. But a list of articles on why that term is best not used

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/mental-health-language-committed-suicide_l_5aeb53ffe4b0ab5c3d6344ab

psychology.org.au/publications/inpsych/2013/february/beaton

www.camh.ca/-/media/files/words-matter-suicide-language-guide.pdf

edition.cnn.com/2018/06/09/health/suicide-language-words-matter/index.html

www.suicideinfo.ca/local_resource/suicideandlanguage/

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/suicide-samaritans-death-stephen-fry-zoe-ball-sadiq-khan-dead-a8529991.html

sadly I got the memo , having lost two very close family members . Please just think about the language used. It’s not policing . It’s sensitivity and respect.

I get that shaky sick feeling when I hear about anyone I know of dying suddenly but I agree it is especially sad when it is suicide - at any age. I think it upsets me so much because I've never felt so low that I ever contemplated suicide. I'm sure at one time or other we've all been ill (sickness bug/flu etc) where we have felt like we were on our way out. I'm sure many of us have been in a car where our stomach has dropped as we've been in a near miss accident or thought we were about to get in an accident. So I feel like when we hear of people dying through illness or in a traffic accident, as tragic as they are, I feel like our brains can make sense of them more as most of us have experienced these things.

However, unless you have experienced suicidal thoughts/ideation/attempts, I think it is very, very difficult to put yourself in that persons shoes or mind. Death to humans is not something we usually look forward to, we may make peace that one day we will die, but it's still something that biologically we are programmed to protect ourselves from. The thought that others feel so awful that they feel they have no other option is almost incomprehensible.

It’s a shame the “anti language-police” lot have derailed the thread.

I wasn’t aware of the change in terminology myself, but thought it a worthwhile and useful bit of information for Move22 to share. It also makes perfect sense to me.

Why so many posters found it necessary to take offence is beyond me. I assume that most of them try to avoid outdated terminology in other cases…

Personally I hate 'took her own life'. It has this irritating faux positivity to it, connotations of "taking control", as if it was a considered or rational act, like choosing euthanasia, as if it's somehow all for the best. Because of my personal experiences, it grates on me. But I don't presume to extend that irritation to the world at large and insist everyone say it that way I want them to. Not least because I lost my bloody mum, I know what pain is and an uncomfortable turn of phrase is frankly very small beer in the shadow of that. Responsible media reporting, yes of course. Policing the way random people choose to refer to suicide in conversation and trying to pretend this will somehow prevent more suicides?? Get real frankly.

I'm sorry you lost your Mum.

I don't think anyone is insisting on anything. From my own experience I know that a lot of people struggling through the grief of suicide find some particularly common words and phrases very difficult to deal with so choose to avoid using them.

4 years ago I didn't know that, I had no reason to know that.

As I'm sure you know all too well there's no step by step guide to grieving traumatic loss.
It's different for everyone and there is no right or wrong way to feel but there are common themes including the way suicide is talked about (or not talked about) and how that impacts on natural (but irrational and horrendous) feelings of shame, self blame, anger and a mix of any number of volatile emotions.

It's been such a taboo subject for so long we don't know how to talk about it even if we want to.

‘It’s been such a taboo subject for so long we don’t know how to talk about it’.

Agreed entirely.

Attacking the bereaved with nitpicking criticism is not sensitive. It’s not respectful. It’s shocking - your lack of appropriate feeling casts doubt on your credibility.

When you have a general opinion or a point about modern language, if you think it’s useful, start a thread. Spoiler: languages change, all the time, every day.

Until that happy event reaches us, suggest you don’t set up shop in someone’s grief to start shrieking about your own exciting new products.

@Supersimkin2 there's been a fair bit of shrieking on this thread, none of it from me.

I haven't insulted or tried to discredit anyone, least of all in their grief.

I simply commented my opinion on an issue aired by others

@Supersimkin2 OP is not bereaved, and neither were any of the commenters at the point that person commented themselves. I really don't think that poster was "attacking the bereaved" or "setting up shop in someone's grief". They would not have posted that if OP had lost someone personally.

Moreso making a general, good to know point on a general thread about a random stranger to OP. It's clear many bereaved dislike "committed" suicide so if there are other more neutral options that will make a big difference to someone's grief, why not? But if the alternatives actively offend some (as some MN have made clear), then I guess the smart thing is to take a leaf from their book and copy what they say. Either way it's good to know.

I know exactly what you mean op.i get shaken by people's deaths I hardly know
My son took his own life aged 21 .Its horrific
To the poster asking people to stop saying commited suicide.what difference does it make?
My son is still dead however you word it

Suicide can easily be exactly that - a rational act and taking control of things.

Sorry you lost your mother. That is always hard, let alone in these circumstances.

Having lost someone close to me by suicide, they are absolutely right. Committed is when it was a sin and a crime. There's enough stigma already so I support them bringing awareness.

Language changes all the time. We no longer call people 'retarded' or various racial terms because of the implications they carry. Someone had to spread awareness first.

OP, I think your reaction is normal. It's a terrible tragedy.

I'm so sorry you lost your son this way. It's so painful and I agree with you - makes not a damn of difference how people say it, the pain of the loss makes footling over language so utterly irrelevant.

I hope you are surrounded by loving support and that the memory of your son is sometimes a pleasure to you as well as a grief. 4.5 years on I'm getting to the point I can think about my mum and smile, sometimes, and not go down a rumination hole of "what if, if only, I wish". Those odd times, when I can remember her and miss her in a 'normal' way, when I get closer to 'normal' grief instead of the complicated trauma of suicide bereavement, are very precious, they feel very healing. But it's not consistent, is it?

I get particularly shaken now, pretty much triggered (though I dislike the word) by suicide deaths, even of those I didn't know well. My stepmum's sister about a year ago, and more recently a WhatsApp friend who I never met but had talked to off and on as a group of mums for several years. That last one hit particularly hard, I was obsessed particularly with what her poor little child would be feeling, I couldn't think about anything else for weeks, I'd just break down crying. But I know that's because it's retriggering my own complicated grief, so comes with a side order of guilt and shame because you're being a 'grief vampire', even if only inside your own head.

@lifeinthehills Having lost my DF to suicide I think the post was incredibly offensive and your post was ridiculous too.

I can’t and don’t wish to (apologies!) respectfully reply to all posters here.

All I can say is I’ve felt vaguely suicidal in the past (but would never carry this out) and I’ve been very lucky to have had supportive family members/friends who’ve suggested therapy which I’ve taken at that time. Thank god I’ve had that support.

There are so many reasons why someone ends their own life, my DB’s ex GF as a teenager died of a heroin overdose but we and her family were never sure if she meant to end her own life or it was suicide (no note). One of DB’s close friends suffered from depression and violently ended his own life so we sort of know the reason why there because we were told.

My best friend as I stated above had been diagnosed with bipolar disorder but thought she was schizophrenic, she was “normal” before this. She’d been over-subscribed medication for her mental health condition which made her lactate and gain a huge amount of weight and after 3 years of this (and she’d tried to end her own life in the meantime) she rang me one day at my work in tears being very rational and saying how could she trust the doctors as they were reducing her medication? Approximately 3-4 weeks later she ended her life. I believe (and I believe her family and friends believe the same) she knew what she was doing at the time so it was a rational act and taking control of things in her own way (as she’d been let down by the doctors) and wasn’t in a psychotic episode but we will never know.

I am truly sorry for everyone who’s lost a friend or family member. Words can’t express how I feel here, so I won’t try to do so.

I personally don’t think the terms around suicide matter much though I can totally understand why some are hurtful and trigger people.

What I think is most important is more dialogue around suicide and mental health issues. Roman Kemp in his documentary around mental health and suicide in young men/men had someone say or he said “ask more than once if they’re ok” - I think that’s what he said. That’s a start, in my opinion, to do that.

It took about 5 or more years at the station near my then workplace (Wimbledon) to erect safety barriers and put Samaritans posters up to prevent suicides. That’s too long in my opinion. Sadly people got so used to hearing about suicides there and hearing/seeing emergency vehicle sirens there, that I overheard some people at the station (passengers) complaining about the delay due to them, once, not my views. I was being bullied at work and having therapy and myself, really had to try and stay strong mentally at that time but the latter was very triggering for me.

You're entitled to your view. I think it's great that awareness is being spread. I don't pull people up on the phrase, but I think it's a good development that there is more awareness around language. My loved one committed neither a sin or a crime in taking their own life, so I choose to use what I feel is more compassionate language. If you're happy using the term 'committed', entirely your choice and really not a big issue.

You are patronising people who are well aware of the origins of phases and laws around suicide.