To not feel safe in changing rooms anymore?

[WandaWomblesaurus]

nypost.com/2023/01/14/sighting-of-trans-womans-penis-in-ymca-locker-room-sparks-tears/

Another story about an inappropriate man in a woman's changing room - is this what we are going to see more of in the UK now too? Having been both flashed and sexually assaulted in a public place, this chills me to the bone. Men who get a thrill out of exposing themselves to women will use any opportunity to do so. To think that they won't abuse women's spaces is to be wilfully and dangerously naive.

YANBU - Not unreasonable to think that flashing is flashing regardless of self ID and magical feelings.

YABU - Be kind to men etc etc

In your opinion.

You seem to lack the ability to tell the difference between facts and in your opinion.

I know what a transwoman is (a man) and what a woman is. That is a fact whether you like it or not. It appears you are struggling with this.

Mocking at, sneering and taking the mick out of someone's beliefs..

Peope take the piss out of other religions all the time.

You seem to lack the ability to tell the difference between facts and in your opinion.

Oh, the irony.

@findmybalance yes I will. I've decided who you are and I don't respect it. You do you.

So many own goals it's tickling me.

I could call myself an astronaut. Doesn't make me one.

I think you just like arguing!

Nah. In actual fact.

@Ereshkigalangcleg and we are back to who dictates? Reality? A world where everyone does and says as they like based on reality.....I can blow your country up because we are stronger and I can, I can sleep with your husband because I can, I can put this person in your job because they're better than you, I can assaut you because I' physically able to, I can say whatever words I like to you because they're true.

A world like that?

I'll take my little misogynistic DARVO world where people show a modicum of respect, compassion and thought for other people regardless of their beliefs every day of the week.

I still agree with mixed sex spaces. I just don't agree that that belief means I can be as offensive and narrow minded as I like, just because its "true".

Incidentally, if you choose to believe all men are a statistical risk, that's fine, but I don't think that should be put on everyone.

Yes, if we interpret "going into space" as going upstairs, we're all astronauts, really, aren't we? Unless you live in a bungalow.

No @findmybalance I am a woman. Not a subset of my sex, thanks. I think you’ll find it was the gender ideologist who came up with cis to further embed the idea that transwomen are women.

And I can’t put into words how patronising and insulting I find your arguments about harm to women in changing rooms. You have NO idea how it feels to fear men. As a female it is ingrained in us from teenage years. Showing your male privilege there. Find me a women who has not been perved on or sexually touched in some way. There are none, that is the reality of living as a woman. So even the fear of what might happen makes us very uncomfortable. Maybe go away and read up on some of this before you come onto this site telling us how to feel and behave.

In MN world where "arguing" means not having a copy and paste echo chamber opinion, maybe. If you think this is arguing you really need to get out more.

can assaut you because I' physically able to

Yes, that's the kind of world people who don't believe in safeguarding promote.

Do you really not realise?

It's because the fantasy that some male people are so interchangeable with female people that they can be added into formerly single sex provisions (physical,.social and legal) without any consideration, indeed with the deliberate blocking of any such consideration under the label "transphobic", of what needs to change if these provisions are now mixed sex or of the impact on the original female users, is being leveraged to demand these things happen in reality, justified only by the meaningless catechism "trans women are women" with no substance behind what this word "woman" now means other than "ticket to women's provisions".

If the fantasy wasn't being weaponised to the detriment of female people there would be no need to keep reminding people that it has no concrete reality underpinning it.

Indeed, if the TRA position was "trans women are men who have an emotional need to live as women", acknowledging from day one they are not women (in the original sex based meaning), we would be expending all.this energy on finding all the ways we are similar and can share voices and resources.

But as long as the TRA position is "trans women are women", women (in the original sex based meaning) have to keep highlighting the ways we are different because otherwise this fantasy will subsume us and we will lose our own rights, our political voice and identity.

To go back to your analogy with religion, as long as religious tolerance requires me to do no more than accept others' right to live by the rules of a god or gods I do not believe in, and that I make external deference to those rules if I am in their religious spaces, I would have no reason to insist that their beliefs are a fantasy and indeed it would be rude, even hateful, to do so.

However, if a religious group was gaining political and social power to claim the moral right to require me to profess their beliefs and live by their rules in formerly secular spaces, of course I must refuse and call out the lack of any concrete reality behind the beliefs that would justify such a demand.

I asked earlier upthread the statistics for women being assaulted in a changing room and that doesn't seem to have appeared

Go find the 'it never happens' thread on FWR.
On the other hand, we've all been asking for years for evidence of transwomen being assaulted in male changing rooms and toilets. Never appears though. Almost as though they aren't actually as 'vulnerable' as the claims.

Re your last point, I can't agree. There are innocent men in the world, they do exist

Of course they do. But innocent men don't violate female boundaries do they?

How do we tell which men are innocent and which men are a threat?
We can't, so we put safeguarding in place. The safest, easiest way is to keep ALL males out of female only spaces.

Do you understand that this isn't about letting some males in? You can't keep some out and let some in. It's all or nothing.
So either you think females are entitled to male free spaces or you don't.

You do know I am a woman? Hav you assumed I'm a man because I haven't immediately fallen into line with other posters and had the exact same experiences?

And I'M the misognystic one.

PS - i never once told anyone how to feel or behave. If anything I have been consistent in preaching the opposite, that everyone, yes everyone, is entitled to their views. even if others disagree.

'Weaponizing your trauma?'

As a gang rape victim with cPTSD, you can get to fuck with that noise.

I would like to think that's not all you took from my post.

Cis is a far more damaging lie, requiring men and women to pretend there are subsets of their sex and that their boundaries are 'wrong' and 'transphobic'.

Agreed.

@findmybalance are you reading the room?

We want to keep penises out of our safe spaces. It's as simple as that.

If you have an issue with that then it's a fetish which needs a whole lot of therapy. Go get it.