To worry my daughter will be taken away because of disagreement on parenting styles

[Anonymoussad]

My daughter is four years old.

Maybe 3 or 4 times a month, she plays up a lot when it comes to bedtime. And by play up, I mean she starts to run around like crazy, she hits us, throws toys, has an awful attitude, kicks her bedroom, she's just really unpleasant because she doesn't want to go to sleep. She comes up with every excuse.

This can go on for 3 or 4 hours.

I usually close the door after 40ish minutes if nothing is calming her down. I explain to her why I'm closing the door, and then I stand outside her door for 60 seconds only with the door closed. She doesn't like this, but it's the only thing that seems to calm her down and make her realise she needs to sleep. She has lights on in her room, and she knows I'm outside. I never do this for more than 60 seconds. And usually, she will then climb into bed and sleep.

We live with my mother in law and last week as I was stood outside the door keeping it closed, she came upstairs and told me to stop. She started crying, saying it was abuse. She was saying I was traumatising her. And she said my little girl has spoke with her about how she doesn't like it.

I know my girl doesn't like it. But she gets even more hysterical if I don't close the door. She runs in and out of her room, she goes absolutely wild and thinks it is all a fun game, for hours and hours on end. She gets so upset because she is tired, and I am telling her to go to sleep.

Anyway, I agreed I would no longer close the door. I didn't want to, but I have no choice since it is her house.

However , now my daughter has started to act up every single night, and nothing I can do can calm her down. I can't close the door anymore, so we basically have 3 hours of my girl getting worked up and upset because she won't sleep even though she needs to.

I'm worried my mother in law has put into my daughters head that she is being abused, mummy is being horrible and her door is being locked. Whereas I see it as a timeout.

They have said I will be reported to social services when my girl tells her teacher I lock her in the room. And I'm devastated that she could be taken away over this.

I know it isn't the best approach and I am seeking help from a sleep specialist hopefully they can see me soon.

Am I really being that unreasonable by closing her door? Will she be taken away over this?

I am dealing with so much right now and I feel sick to my stomach that this has been blown so much out of proportion. I can't stop crying. I know closing the door on her for a minute isn't nice, but she's safe and it makes her realise it is time to calm down and sleep. And it's always a last resort after I see her working herself up and nothing is calming her down.

You’re mother in law is a twat with issues that she is projecting on to you, and your husband needs to tell her to mind her business.

If she’s running around tantruming there is a potential for her to fall down the stairs etc, So it’s for her own safety and cool off. I actually think you’re handling this well.

If this carries on I would just start fucking off at night and leave your husband to do it seeing as he can’t grow a spine and stand up to his mother.

When are you moving out?

Just to add no social worker worth their weight in salt would even attempt to remove your child over this.

If SS couldn’t do right by poor little Arthur, baby Sky and all those other abused children, they are hardly going to be interested in removing a defiant, naughty little girl who is being well cared for by her long suffering, competent mother.

Just a couple of things i picked up.

You do books then teeth .. you are taking her back out of her room again.

Does she have a night light.

Doors closed at night are not a bad thing at all.

You need to work on leaving her to settle on a normal day.

Let her they won't do anything. This is a method used by supernanny. I myself had to do it with my son and I'm sure many other parents do it.

I can see why your MIL finds you holding the door closed and your DD screeching to be let out upsetting.

Could you get something like a cd player and some audiobooks for her to listen to in bed? DD always found that quite settling as she could lie in bed doing something and nothing at the same time

We had a stair gate for both DS and by DS2 I had a system in place DS1 we tried but was hit and miss as we hadn’t done it before.
The gate got locked and I walked away. I would sit out of sight and wait until they’d cried for a few minutes, go back put them in bed and repeat. The first 2 -3 nights it was heartbreaking. The 4th night with DS2 specifically it was sorted. I couldn’t believe it was so easy. He gave up and just went to bed. We never had a problem since.
Friends of ours had a lot of problems. Kids in their beds that they couldn’t get out even when they were at school. Another had kids asleep on sofa and being carried up when really too heavy to still be doing. They’re older now and some of them won’t be alone upstairs still. It might seem easier at the time but get her to settle well now and you’ll make it better for her and you going forward. Don’t panda to her or your MIL.

I agree you need to move out. MIL is undermining you and probably putting confusion in your little one’s head. I would choose to do what you are doing myself - I would sit quietly in the room and not engage. Keep reiterating ‘it’s bedtime, you need to sleep’. We get this sometimes with my 5 year old when he is overtired. So we make sure we get him to bed before that stage and read books/wind down together quietly. Could your daughter be overstimulated at bedtime? What time is she going up?

This. Stay with her whilst she falls asleep. You won’t be spoiling her by doing what is natural.

We have no money and a 10 year wait for a council house

Do you both work?

3 to 4 hours is too much, if I were you I’d change the bedtime and send her in later, and build up a good routine from scratch but do it gradually. It all sounds too traumatic to be honest and dramatic. I don’t think the door thing works as others have said, if it actually goes on for 3 or 4 hours?

My feeling is this whole issue needs to be dialed way back. So the little girl gets all wound up at bedtime, then your MIL got all wound up too and you caught it from her. Nobody is taking your daughter away! I'd just do as you are, stop doing this while you're in her house since it makes her go bonkers for some strange reason. Get your appointment with the sleep expert and take it from there. It's all okay!

She's only been like this AT bedtime since we moved into the house a year ago.

It sounds like she’s afraid of her new bedroom which is very common in young children.

It sounds like she’s falling asleep through exhaustion of panicking and crying.

She needs to be going bed earlier so she doesn’t get over tired.

Have a nice relaxing routine and stay with her until she falls asleep.
If you need to Co-sleep for a while then so be it.

Bedtimes are hard when you are exhausted but if you do it earlier and take in turns with your DH then it will be easier to handle.

Please stop locking her in her bedroom.
60 seconds will feel like an eternity to her if she’s afraid.
She’s going to act worse knowing that you’re going to lock her in and it becomes a vicious cycle.

Social services won't be interested in you closing her door very briefly to calm her down when she's having a tantrum.

I agree with what someone else said: reach out to your health visitor/local family centre for help on the behaviour/sleep issue.

Your mother in laws behaviour is manipulative, controlling and threatening. Is there a reason you live with her?

Dear Mil. As you are obviously very experienced you can do bedtime from now on. And so as not to undermine your methods I will pop round my friend Jane's house for a couple of hours each evening. Thank you so much for offering. Bye.

Social-services are over stretched as it is, and even if they weren’t, believe me, they wouldn’t be interested in this. It is not something they would consider ‘taking away’ a child over.

I work in a role where we complete safeguarding, this would not reach the threshold for concern.

In any case, my MIL used to do this to dp and siblings as children. They’re fine and have a great relationship with her and laugh about it now.

Just wanted to follow up after reading your reply...

If she's started this after moving into the house, is there something about the house/her grandparents that has initiated this bad behaviour?

Definitely try mixing up her bedtime. Maybe it's too early or too late?

Can I ask why a council house is your only option? Do both you and your partner work? Could you afford to rent privately? What made you move in with his parents?

OP you said this behaviour started a year ago after moving into the house and In the beginning it only happened 3/4 times a month?? That’s not very often but something must be triggering the behaviour on those days…. I’m not surprised the behaviour has increased either, if your child doesn’t want to go to bed, closing her in, in a place she doesn’t want to be will only cause her to not want to be in there more.

Most behavioural issues in young children are caused when their attachment to their primary carer (usually the parents) starts to deteriorate and they start to feel almost abandoned. They play up to gain the attention they feel they’re losing. Because they are so young they don’t know how else to regain the attention/bond.

What’s changed for her since moving in? Has anything in your working pattern changed? is someone else picking her up from school on those days for example or making her dinner when before it was you?

4 is still so very young…they rely on us to feel safe and secure. Something is causing the behaviour. I’d spend time trying to work out what and rebuild the relationship with your daughter because if it worsens and you have no choice but to stay in the house with your in laws, things could get worse and she may start to look to Your MIL for comfort rather than you - and I can imagine that would be a hurtful nightmare for you!!

LOL at the idea of social services because you closed the door on your daughter for a minute. Your MIL sounds hysterical. Ridiculous.

Suggest leaving bedtimes to DH and MIL.

My dd was exactly the same at that age and I actually used a similar approach to you OP although I’m not proud to admit it I really had reached the end of my tether with her after months of her behaving like that at bedtime, I was starting to lose my temper about it and shout at her, it was really awful to go though that almost every night. Like you I started just shutting her in her room and holding the door until she got into her bed and stayed there, then I would open the door and say good night to her and tell her she could have the door open as long as she stayed in bed.

She really hated it and I felt awful but at the time I really couldn’t see any alternative. My older dd was around 8 at the time and she wasn’t able to go to bed until dd2 went to sleep so she would be up until 10-11pm every night and we were all tired and miserable all the time which was making dd1s behaviour even worse. I’m sure the neighbours were sick if it too.

The behaviour changed very quickly once I started doing it to be honest, usually one warning was enough to get her to go back to her bed so I didn’t have to actually shut the door much. I’m sure it was partly an overtired cycle and by taking drastic measures to make her go to bed we managed to break it a little.

Bath, books, relaxing, chatting, cuddling, teeth...

That is a lot.

Does the bath wind her up?
I gave baths in late afternoon. It gave them a second wind. Evening baths were out of the question.

Teeth need to be done first.

Books need to be very carefully chosen. If she ever has nightmares, watch out for story content. Even small problems that are resolved in the story, like getting lost and then found, can be disturbing. Books of rhymes are soothing. The Books of Shel Silverstein might be nice. Soothing music amd singing a favorite song is sometimes preferable to a story.

Since you mention she normally sleeps poorly (awake for hours at night even after she falls asleep) I think you need to involve the GP. Sleep disorders can be diagnosed and tackled. Underlying anxiety needs to be exposed and tackled, if that's the problem. Melatonin and a weighted blanket are options.

Does your MIL provide childcare?
Does DD go to a new nursery or school now that you've moved?
Are there any problems at all in the place she spends her days (school or nursery or at home)?
You need to find out what MIL talks to her about when they spend time together.

Does DD get to have any say in what the bedtime routine consists of, or what's in her bedroom?

Does she get to spend much time in the evenings with just mummy and daddy or are the ILs always there with the three of you?

Do you, DH, and DD get to spend family time together at weekends, just the three of you?

Also -

What your MIL and FIL are doing with the mention of SS and talking with DD behind your back is coercive and threatening.

You and your H need to come up with a much better plan than living there for ten years.

The manipulative tears, the interference, and lack of boundaries are all big red flags. I fear the ILs will keep on pushing for more control over DD the longer you stay there, and that you are in danger of accepting a good deal of nonsense from the ILs because of your own background. I'm not judging you here. I'm judging them.

The threat of SS is intolerable. You are the parents. MIL and FIL have to completely respect that and back right off. Trying to get DD and your H onside against you is completely unacceptable, and you need to fight back carefully because these people hold a good deal of power over you.

Look for jobs somewhere else, even at the other end of the country if it comes to that.
Look for better jobs where you are.

Look up PACE therapeutic parenting. It's not improving her behaviour closing the door. It's shaming her into submission. If she's scared which is why she's running around and you are shutting the door you are rejecting he feelings. You shouldn't leave her alone and fearful.

Is she getting enough physical activity in the day. Is she napping enough to not be overtired?

There is something in the new house that is bothering her. Do your in laws do child care for you?

Exactly this!

MiL aside look at starting bedtime routine earlier and end it with a nice snuggle while you read a book or have a little chat about the day.

Four is quite young for the door to be closed and not able to open it, even if it is for 60 seconds until calmer (that would have just wound up my DC!)