To worry my daughter will be taken away because of disagreement on parenting styles

[Anonymoussad]

My daughter is four years old.

Maybe 3 or 4 times a month, she plays up a lot when it comes to bedtime. And by play up, I mean she starts to run around like crazy, she hits us, throws toys, has an awful attitude, kicks her bedroom, she's just really unpleasant because she doesn't want to go to sleep. She comes up with every excuse.

This can go on for 3 or 4 hours.

I usually close the door after 40ish minutes if nothing is calming her down. I explain to her why I'm closing the door, and then I stand outside her door for 60 seconds only with the door closed. She doesn't like this, but it's the only thing that seems to calm her down and make her realise she needs to sleep. She has lights on in her room, and she knows I'm outside. I never do this for more than 60 seconds. And usually, she will then climb into bed and sleep.

We live with my mother in law and last week as I was stood outside the door keeping it closed, she came upstairs and told me to stop. She started crying, saying it was abuse. She was saying I was traumatising her. And she said my little girl has spoke with her about how she doesn't like it.

I know my girl doesn't like it. But she gets even more hysterical if I don't close the door. She runs in and out of her room, she goes absolutely wild and thinks it is all a fun game, for hours and hours on end. She gets so upset because she is tired, and I am telling her to go to sleep.

Anyway, I agreed I would no longer close the door. I didn't want to, but I have no choice since it is her house.

However , now my daughter has started to act up every single night, and nothing I can do can calm her down. I can't close the door anymore, so we basically have 3 hours of my girl getting worked up and upset because she won't sleep even though she needs to.

I'm worried my mother in law has put into my daughters head that she is being abused, mummy is being horrible and her door is being locked. Whereas I see it as a timeout.

They have said I will be reported to social services when my girl tells her teacher I lock her in the room. And I'm devastated that she could be taken away over this.

I know it isn't the best approach and I am seeking help from a sleep specialist hopefully they can see me soon.

Am I really being that unreasonable by closing her door? Will she be taken away over this?

I am dealing with so much right now and I feel sick to my stomach that this has been blown so much out of proportion. I can't stop crying. I know closing the door on her for a minute isn't nice, but she's safe and it makes her realise it is time to calm down and sleep. And it's always a last resort after I see her working herself up and nothing is calming her down.

YABU for being so ignorant to the basics of child safeguarding.

of course social services won’t take her away for this.

FFS

Where's your DH when all this is happening? What does he think you should do?

Where is your partner in this? Why are you living with your MIL? Your daughter is not going to be taken away from you over this, believe you me, when my son with ADHD was really kicking off we would sometimes have to keep his bedroom door shut to protect him and us (as he would try and hurt us) and to stop him trashing the whole house. He would scream like he was being murdered but our neighbours knew why.

It sounds like it would benefit you all to make some changes to bedtime, but you aren’t ‘locking her in her room’. You aren’t doing anything children’s services would be remotely interested in.

What happens if you close her door and just go and make yourself a cup of tea?
If she follows you out, ignore her completely (beyond saying something bland like ´it’s bedtime so now mummy is going to read her book and have tea because it’s not time for playing’ on repeat) and carry on with your evening?
If she starts doing something dangerous to get her attention, pick her up and put her somewhere safe (eg. Pull her off the back of the sofa and put her on the floor) then go back to ignoring her.
Or you could put her back in her room repeatedly without really responding to what she’s saying but that’s hard with a heavy 4yr old (as opposed to say, an 18month old).
Has she got an clock she can read? So you tell her 8pm/9pm or whatever works for her is bedtime and she needs to be sleeping or reading until 6am/7am or similar. Put a box of books in easier reach and de-emphasise the sleep part. You might find she’ll look at a book for 10 minutes then decide to sleep.

Simply for reassurance- I am a lawyer and child protection specialist for a local authority. If my social work department brought this to my attention (which they wouldn't in the first place,) I can assure you that it absolutely would not be treated as a child protection matter. Your child is not going to be removed.

I agree the idea of your child being taken away over this is ridiculous.

From a practical point of view of your child is overtired you need a look at a new schedule and bring bedtime massively forwards for a short period to catch up- I wouldn’t be afraid to put her to bed at 5.30pm for a bit. Always evict her from bed in the morning even if she wants to sleep in.

Have you got a bedtime routine? Bath with lavender, book, cuddle in bed? Has she an attachment object like a teddy?

From an emotional point of view I would say you should be in the room helping her manage her emotions. Sit still, calm, and repeat ad nauseum ‘I can see you’re upset darling, you’re tired, mummy is here for you but it’s time to go to sleep’

As a PP suggested I would use a high baby gate to stop her bolting. You don’t have to run after her or keep putting her in bed but sit with a book yourself in the dark with a nightlight and white noise.

This way you are supporting and containing her emotions but not providing big reactions.

Do you have a routine? Or is it:"right, bed. "?

Mine used to go a bit mad at bedtime. Vivid memories of dc2 doing an ET and wearing the entire contents of the laundry basket, and parading around, singing, while I tried to read to dc1.

We used to watch cbeebies, go and do teeth, have a bit of a sing etc getting pjs on, then sit in my bed and read stories. That usually calmed them enough. Usually.

To HV / Social services there is!!

I think the most worrying part of your post is that this is what your mil has said. But you actually write “they have said you’ll be reported…” is that your PIL or your partner and his mother?

of course if your DD says what they are suggesting she could say then someone would investigate. But there’s no reason she’d say that surely as it’s not true that this is every night etc. And, of course as @missmap says, it would not escalate to the level of social services intervention. There’s a book called Toddler Taming by Christopher Green that offers a very similar approach. As long as you’re explaining the process to your daughter calmly and carrying it out calmly and not yelling at her and throwing her in her room then what you’re doing seems to be implementing a strategy to help calm the situation rather than abuse.

id be worried if my PIL took this attitude rather than trying to be on my team about it and even more worried if my partner was on board with that.

(Also my little one sometimes got this way when she needed to do a poo before bed, in case that helps at all… sadly you can’t make them do one, so you sometimes just have to ride it out, but some trips to the loo might help!)

Babygate helped for us too!

Why do you allow her 40 minutes before closing the door which you say calms her and she then gets into bed? I would definitely ask your mil to shut the fuck up do bedtime for a week.

When can you move out?

60 seconds? FFS that's fine. I would have done it and paid no attention to MIL.

Or told MIL to do bedtimes herself.

The Ferber sleep training book recommends this anyway. It is not child abuse.

So sorry you are going through this, it sounds tough. As if parenting isn't hard enough your MIL doesn't sound very supportive at all. Maybe she could try bedtime and see what bright ideas she has? I work alongside SS (not a SW but attend meetings etc) there's no way they will take your LG away from you from what you have said in this post. How does you LG behave in general? Is it just bedtime that's the issue? I'm a Mum of a 4 yo and I would probably be taking the same approach tbh with you. I understand you are in your MIL house so don't want to upset her as she clearly feels very strongly about it but 3 hours of screaming is not good for you, your daughter or the whole house so you can't carry on the same way you are now and your MIL needs to realise that.

This is not abuse. Nothing wrong with what you are doing.

This is what my daughter did for five years before she was diagnosed with autism and ADHD. Now she takes melatonin at 6.30 and is asleep by 7.15. She's a very, very happy child now and we have no more meltdowns or issues near bedtime.

I feel for you as I thought at times I was losing my mind.

I suppose the real question is why do you live with your mother in law?

When your parenting is undermined and you start second guessing what you're doing it makes it all a bit tougher.

What concerns me about your words is your fear that you're doing something wrong. If it feels like potentially its wrong, then go with your gut - your own judgement.

What I've observed over the years is there are many right ways of doing things. A common factor in them working is consistency and boundaries.

I'm a fan of a carrot and stick approach.

When my eldest two were little it was just me and them. One of my succesful for me methods was they started the bedtime routine with their choice of three bedtime reads each (three shorts, three chapters, three made up stories/ rhymes) their choice. If they played up they would get a warning we'd be down to two, followed by removal of one. We're down to two. I wonder which two we'll have - enthusiastic still lots to play for and opportunity to have two great stories, which do you think you'd like etc.

We always had one story each - but sometimes it would be my choice as they'd used up their choices.

They don't come with a manual - I've three now, youngest 11 and each so very different with different challenges at different ages.

Why would your MIL say this? Is she stressed by the extended bedtime or is she trying to scare you? Are you quite young? Why are you living with your MIL? Is your DP/DH there too? If so, why isn’t he helping?

Speak to your HV for support if you need it, and really try to get out and in your own place.

Your OP makes no sense , you say she does it for 3/4 hours but after 40 minutes you close the door for 60 secs and she stops and goes to bed - so which is it 3/4 hours or 40 minutes ? If the first time you held the door shut it had the desired effect why do you continue to let her play up for 40 minutes the next time ? However the obvious answer is to move out

I meant to say that star charts worked well for my DC at that age. Give stars and have little rewards after gaining a small number. Then have a big reward for getting a bigger number.

Give stars for each stage of the bed process maybe, so your DD is frequently rewarded.

And you seriously believe that SS can/will take your daughter away over this? I'd be surprised if they even come out to see you, but if they did they'll pretty soon realise what a waste of time it was.
Stop buying into your MILs drama, do what works to get DD calm and in bed.
Your MIL sounds pretty awful, I'd say move out but if you can't then get your DP/DH to deal with her - firmly.

The obvious answer is that your MIL does bedtime. Or am I missing something? Other than ,move the fuck out of there.

Nobody is going to o be interested in how you do bedtime, much less take your kids away.

I suspect you are minimising when you say 60 seconds.

I think you need help. Early Help would be ideal. If ypu told your HV (honestly) what's happening that could possibly trigger an EH referral. Parenting Trams often tun sleep clinics, you may get a referral.

Personal opinion - under 5 ish I wouldn't use any form of isolation time out.

You’d have told the woman housing you to do bedtime for your child herself?

Good grief

Could you close the door on your MIL instead ?