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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To try and get my awful colleague sacked

235 replies

WhenHarryMetSandro · 14/01/2023 08:21

Some background is that I returned from maternity leave in October and my reduced days (went to 4 days) meant that my maternity cover has remained in the business in a slightly senior role to accommodate my reduced hours and so she has retained some of the admin parts of my role. She was part of the team and was given the ML cover in what I believe was an error of judgement from management. She got it after the person given it went on long term sick leave a week after I left. She was hated at the time by the team. She now has no line management responsibilities and I think misses the control.

She is still hated by the team. She is a micromanager, rude, disrespectful and generally, a jobs worth that tells on people like the teachers pet at school. She isn’t well liked around the rest of the business and people often comment on their displeasure of interacting with her. She will do things to make things harder for my team who are all great, hard working and lovely people. I cannot understand why! They really tolerate her BS most of the time. She will get involved in things that don’t fall under her job just to be a cow and ruin something for someone else. She usually gets nothing but support but she is pushing people to the point of leaving and getting sick of it.

Two of my team left during my ML time because they couldn’t stand her as their manager.

Things she has done recently that makes me think she is an arsehole are as follows :

sent round the company policy about not using the company printers for colour when a team member (worked at the company 10 years, always lovely person) printed out 5 sheets of A4 paper in colour for a charity function as her own printer had shut down whilst printing those last 5 pages. I had given the ok to do this. She knew this and still complained about it.

tells tales to me if my team are 2 minutes late getting to work. I don’t want this level of observation. it’s weird and unneeded.

insists on working in freezing cold temperatures and often sets this to her preference despite it being uncomfortable for the rest of the team who sit in hats and gloves to accommodate

has thrown away birthday cakes brought in by the team members if they’ve haven’t accommodated for her specific tastes (not allergies, just cake preferences)

I have made some adjustments to work shifts to create better work life balance for the team which has been well received by the team and she has painstakingly reviewed our company policy and flagged why I can’t or shouldn’t have done this despite knowing the team really would benefit. it’s a grey area and at managers discretion as long as it benefits the team with no detriment to the business. which it doesn’t.

Checks up on my own work and that of others. We are all very capable, intelligent people and she takes great pleasure in pointing out of anything looks out of the ordinary which normally back fires as there is a reason for it. It’s just embarrassing that my team or I feel we then need to explain or justify to her (we don’t)

AIBU to think that getting this person out of business is the only reasonable thing to do. Any advice? I’m half joking really. I appreciate times are hard at the moment so don’t like the idea of someone losing their job but she is just awful. How do you deal with people like this? She has been at the company 5 years now and has been awful the entire time. Makes most of us dread working and each interaction leaves a sour taste for days. Always the busiest person, always the person who doesn’t need to muck in. Always a tell tale. Always got an eye over her shoulder despite us being a really nice and supportive team. I mean, aside from this post but it’s past the point of thinking she will see the light.

OP posts:
Bookkeys · 14/01/2023 10:34

SallyCinnamon12 · 14/01/2023 09:42

I really want to know if anyone pulled her up on Cakegate, and if so, what did she say?

Surely to god she didn’t just tip a whole birthday cake into the bin with no one asking her what she was doing..?

It was probably a few days later and the cake was stale

LIZS · 14/01/2023 10:34

While you perceive her as mean she may perceive you as overly lax. You may not have the authority to agree terms such as shifts and personal printing and such may have come to light during your ml. You want to be your team's friend not their manager. Did they resent that she was not such a walkover, hence why some left even though they knew it was short term.

WhenHarryMetSandro · 14/01/2023 10:35

WeAreTheHeroes · 14/01/2023 10:20

I've read all.your posts OP. She thinks very highly of you too. If she's been there for 5 years and is as bad as you say then it's management failure that she hasn't been managed out. It comes across that you think you are a superior manager and you are mates with your team, which isn't always a good thing.

I’m not mates with my team. I am a courteous and thoughtful manager of people, adults who can and do a brilliant job. They don’t need me to hit the roof if they were running late due to daycare drop off or traffic. I treat people how I’d like to be treated, with a bit of respect and dignity. It’s a workplace, not a prison camp. I am not there to make their days worse. I don’t socialise outside of work, I don’t talk badly about this colleague (or any colleague) and keep it friendly but professional as I think you should as a LM. I’ve posted on MN in a way I obviously wouldn’t discuss with my team.

Reasons she hasn’t been sacked are that I tried to pull it back, thought we could try something new and see if it helped. I made cases for her and worked with her. It helped for a few weeks or months but it would all start again once her fear of the sack would wear off.

OP posts:
Nogbreaks · 14/01/2023 10:39

I would start managing her out.

WeAreTheHeroes · 14/01/2023 10:39

Sakura7 · 14/01/2023 10:30

You think it's easy to manage this kind of behaviour out of someone?

People like this rarely change. OP was well within her rights to make the request she did, and clearly the company didn't consider it unreasonable.

Managing the behaviour out of someone?? If it's such a problem and the person doesn't modify their behaviour, you manage the person out of the business. Any business that has the money and good legal advice can legally remove someone they don't want to keep. The fact this woman has been there 5 years suggests her actual work is fine she just has a different personality and take on things.

IMustDoMoreExercise · 14/01/2023 10:39

WhenHarryMetSandro · 14/01/2023 08:31

Open to feedback on this, what makes me not sound great exactly? For wanting a respectful and relaxed workplace for my team?

You don't sound bad at all. Ignore the haters on here, they can't help themselves.

Yes, I would try and get rid of her. She is ruining the whole company and people will leave because of her.

It will be difficult to do though. Can you speak to HR about your concerns?

WhenHarryMetSandro · 14/01/2023 10:42

Bookkeys · 14/01/2023 10:34

It was probably a few days later and the cake was stale

It was 45 minutes. It was home made that someone had made especially as it was the birthday persons favourite (they are friends outside of work). The PITA person doesn’t like the friendship and so I believe was being vindictive. Initially she denied it and called it an accident, then she had she thought it was old cake, then she said it was clogging up the shared kitchen and the smell was upsetting her as she doesn’t like chocolate and it was closest to her desk. She was talked to by her manager about it.

OP posts:
VyeBrator · 14/01/2023 10:48

This is very unprofessional, putting such specific details on a public forum, could give her the ammunition to take a grievance out against you if she stumbles across this thread, or someone points it out to her.

There's just no need for it. You know if this woman is such a problem you need to take the correct course of action.

keepcalm11 · 14/01/2023 10:51

She sounds awful. Can you go to your line manager and ask for advice what to do, or HR?
There was a sitauion like this at my workplace and myself and other colleagues collected evidence that ended with the person being dismissed. I thoiught I would feel bad about it (and part of me still does a bit) but the MH of the team was suffereing and the customers were as well. It was unpleasant but had to be done.

freyamay74 · 14/01/2023 10:53

OP what are you expecting this person's current manager to do that you couldn't do yourself?

zingally · 14/01/2023 10:57

Stop giving this woman, who you dislike, so much headspace.

Instead of setting out to get her fired, maybe start putting the feelers out for a new job for yourself? If someone higher up asks, I don't think there's any harm in saying that you are getting tired of dealing with this colleague, but I wouldn't volunteer that information.
At the end of the day, as adults, the only behaviour you can control is your own.

Wiluli · 14/01/2023 11:02

if you all complaint she can be demised. Personally anyone soiling work fir others or making member teams leave has no place in that team . I would want her fired too

LakieLady · 14/01/2023 11:05

WeAreTheHeroes · 14/01/2023 10:39

Managing the behaviour out of someone?? If it's such a problem and the person doesn't modify their behaviour, you manage the person out of the business. Any business that has the money and good legal advice can legally remove someone they don't want to keep. The fact this woman has been there 5 years suggests her actual work is fine she just has a different personality and take on things.

Ime, when someone is having their behaviour managed, they usually end up leaving of their own accord. I've seen this happen several times.

But this person's behaviour is for their manager to address, and that's why the OP needs to raise it with her manager. It's entirely legitimate for her to do so, as it has an adverse impact on the team OP manages.

I would definitely do that before going down the collective grievance route. If a collective grievance went in, OP could well end up some of the brown stuff flying in her direction, for not having addressed it earlier/more effectively.

Keep the grievance powder dry for now!

WisherWood · 14/01/2023 11:09

LosCinco · 14/01/2023 10:23

The problem with petty is that it is much harder to deal with and just as soul destroying trying to work with than someone who is openly doing major things.

If you complain you look like you're being petty and for each individual thing they can come back with "oh, sorry an accident" or "it came across wrong" or "I only thought that..."

But it's the amount of stuff that gets you on edge waiting for the next petty behaviour even if you ignore it on the face of it.

I've worked with that situation. Things like finding your mouse unplugged after you've been to the toilet. They're the only other one in the room. You spend 5 minutes trying to find out what's wrong before you plug it back in. Small issue really. You can't really complain because it makes you look petty, and you know they'll either deny it or say something like "oh something was making a funny noise, so I pulled it out to see if it was that, and I thought I'd put it back."
But you know it's personal because it's all things round you that's happening, and you're on edge waiting for the next thing.
Or drawing pins on your chair, chewing gum under the desk, the project you've just printed out to hand to the manager having 2 pages removed from the middle etc. It's all really petty and silly, and each individual issue could have an innocent explanation if it was just a one off.

You also know that if someone does call them out then they'll play the misunderstood and trying to be terribly helpful victim.

Yes, this. It's behaviour designed to be just the right side of the line so they won't get sacked and so that you look like the one with the problem. It is incredibly difficult to deal with. However, the ACAS website is useful especially when it comes to definitions of bullying. They make the point that it often isn't largescale one-off things. It is likely an accumulation of smaller incidents.

The one I was dealing with had a major, public vendetta against a local company. She blogged about this extensively. It was utterly mad. Whenever I found myself thinking, is it me or is it her? I'd go and read the blog and think 'no, definitely her'.

IlooklikeRonnieCorbett · 14/01/2023 11:11

pleaseandthankyou45 · 14/01/2023 09:46

I have someone like this. Start ignoring and sideline her. Stop being nice, she sounds awful.

You mean bully her out. Which is illegal.

IVFbeenverylucky · 14/01/2023 11:14

IlooklikeRonnieCorbett · 14/01/2023 11:11

You mean bully her out. Which is illegal.

Illegal???? No. Although not the best way of dealing with it.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 14/01/2023 11:15

Hadtochangeforthisone · 14/01/2023 10:22

You do know OP, that posters hang around AIBU just to disparage the OP no matter how reasonable their post.
I guess there are a lot of unhappy people on these boards who get a little ego kick to put someone else down. ? Sad I know. Especially as I thought MN was meant to be a supportive forum.

Anyway OP, I will take your post at face value. Without imagining ulterior motive or projecting another narrative.

You colleague sounds a complete PITA.. If nothing else the fact that two staff members left whilst she was managing told me a lot. However, the fault lies with senior management and that is who you need to speak to.
You also need to make sure you don't let things go as 'minor' . (She obviously doesn't) and therefore need to look at the grievance procedures and follow them to the letter..

Yes indeed.

I saved a tiny puppy from drowning in a deep quarry.

YWBVVVVU. How do you know the puppy wasn't just enjoying a lovely swim, which you cut short for no good reason?

ExtraOnions · 14/01/2023 11:16

A collective grievance over a thrown away cake - as that’s the only thing she seems to have done wrong. TBH, I doubt you would get anywhere with that anyway.. if, as you say, people are often bringing cake in, and it got thrown away once, it’s hardly evidence of persistent behaviour.

It’s hard to comment as we only have your side, and having investigated many grievances, the “truth” may not be reflected in your opinion. If you do put a grievance in your behaviour will also be looked at, including allowing staff to not comply with company policy. All the conversations that have been had, with colleagues, about her & her behaviour will also be looked into - so hope you have kept it professional.

A good manager should be able to manage people who are very different to themselves and, if necessary, use a Capability process to to change behaviour. TBH you sound like a lazy manager … refuse to have her reporting into you, and then complain about her.

DrinkFeckArseBrick · 14/01/2023 11:16

Some of these replies are batshit

'Its gross to eat a cake that someone has blown all over'. Ok that's fine if you think that. Dont fucking eat a slice then, you've no right to throw it out before anyone else can make that choice

'Its taking the piss to arrive 5 minutes late'. In some jobs, absolutely. No way you can turn up late if you're public facing for example. But in a lot of jobs it's completely acceptable, because flexibility works both ways. I regularly start up to half an hour late. No one gives a shit because I get my work done to a high standard and put in more than my contracted hours and when needed I work on weekends and have cancelled holiday to meet unexpected urgent deadlines.

Posters dont seem to realise that companies have different cultures and if the culture at your company, like a lot of them, is a bit of flexibility and a bit of give and take and letting people make their own decisions and then have accountability, that having someone moan about the minor details of the rules rather than the overall objective of the rules, is completely time wasting in itself and detrimental to everyones wellbeing. Eg no colour printing - my company also has this policy. To save money. But as a complete one off theyd be fine with it, it's the overall budget they care about not the day to day details and the rest of us are grown up enough to see that it was a one off and not think 'oooh Jane got away with doing some colour printing, I'm going to do all mine now!'

Anyway what I'm trying to say is, if the way you run your team is representative of he company culture then it does sound like she is being very petty and disruptive.

I'm not sure what you can do about it though as on it's own none of this sounds likes big deal. I'd maybe be tempted to tell her 'yes I know, if you dont like it then feel free to report it to higher management'. So you're not getting involved and they will get sick of her pettiness as well. But only if higher management have the same flexible culture as you and your team otherwise it will backfire

Tigertigertigertiger · 14/01/2023 11:17

What kind of monster throws away cake?

ButterflyOil · 14/01/2023 11:18

It’s so frustrating and sad when the only solution people feel they have is to leave vs the person causing all the trouble leaving. We’ve got one at my workplace who has contributed to at least two people leaving. The constant low level difficult behaviour that takes place at every opportunity is so draining and wearing. They always seem to know how to push it far enough to be a real pain and make working together difficult and unpleasant, but to reel it in enough so they avoid serious disciplinary action.

I feel your pain OP! It’s so hard when it is a constant drip of obstruction and negativity. It builds up over time like water torture - individually each incident is not the worst thing but together over a sustained period of time it’s demoralising and frustrating.

IlooklikeRonnieCorbett · 14/01/2023 11:19

IVFbeenverylucky · 14/01/2023 11:14

Illegal???? No. Although not the best way of dealing with it.

Yes it is. Constructive dismissal.

You have my sympathies op, I worked with somebody like this and it creates a tense atmosphere. I agree with a previous pp regarding office temp, and things like that, call it out but keep a trail and no bullying tactics.

FeckingHungryMozzies · 14/01/2023 11:20

I'm not sure why you're getting a hard time OP other than this is MN therefore you must be wrong.

She sounds like a right pain in the arse, and I'd definitely be finding ways to highlight this to those that have the power to fix this.

I once worked with a woman who was fucking hideous to everyone below her. She was the EA of the director and he thought she was lovely.

I had to be the one to tell him that after the 3rd attempt to hire her an assistant with all the previous people lasting 6 months, she was not a great manager and I didn't want to hire for her again.

He was genuinely surprised when I told him about her behaviour to her assistants and to generally everyone else in the office.

After being with the company for 5 years, her role was soon restructured and she was made redundant. It couldn't have happened to a more deserving person quite frankly. We all silently cheered.

restorativejustice · 14/01/2023 11:25

If you're not her manager, what exactly can you do? She doesn't sound pleasant but then again workplaces aren't social clubs and if her managers haven't got a major problem with her then maybe your issues are just very petty.

As others have suggested, it sounds like you've really isolated her as she doesn't fit in to the work culture you prefer. Plenty of workplaces aren't a barrel of laughs, and so you either find another job or just accept there's someone in work who you find irritating but you can't control.

She will get involved in things that don’t fall under her job just to be a cow and ruin something for someone else

This just sounds weird and paranoid. Your post could easily help her identify herself and is pretty unprofessional.

LadyGaGasPokerFace · 14/01/2023 11:33

I’ve been working with someone like this. She’s literally shoehorned my friend out of her job 😡 my friend was there 14 years. New manager came in, she crawled up his arse and is now doing my friend’s job.
Can’t stand these people. I’m desperate to leave. I’m just sitting there watching it all…