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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To try and get my awful colleague sacked

235 replies

WhenHarryMetSandro · 14/01/2023 08:21

Some background is that I returned from maternity leave in October and my reduced days (went to 4 days) meant that my maternity cover has remained in the business in a slightly senior role to accommodate my reduced hours and so she has retained some of the admin parts of my role. She was part of the team and was given the ML cover in what I believe was an error of judgement from management. She got it after the person given it went on long term sick leave a week after I left. She was hated at the time by the team. She now has no line management responsibilities and I think misses the control.

She is still hated by the team. She is a micromanager, rude, disrespectful and generally, a jobs worth that tells on people like the teachers pet at school. She isn’t well liked around the rest of the business and people often comment on their displeasure of interacting with her. She will do things to make things harder for my team who are all great, hard working and lovely people. I cannot understand why! They really tolerate her BS most of the time. She will get involved in things that don’t fall under her job just to be a cow and ruin something for someone else. She usually gets nothing but support but she is pushing people to the point of leaving and getting sick of it.

Two of my team left during my ML time because they couldn’t stand her as their manager.

Things she has done recently that makes me think she is an arsehole are as follows :

sent round the company policy about not using the company printers for colour when a team member (worked at the company 10 years, always lovely person) printed out 5 sheets of A4 paper in colour for a charity function as her own printer had shut down whilst printing those last 5 pages. I had given the ok to do this. She knew this and still complained about it.

tells tales to me if my team are 2 minutes late getting to work. I don’t want this level of observation. it’s weird and unneeded.

insists on working in freezing cold temperatures and often sets this to her preference despite it being uncomfortable for the rest of the team who sit in hats and gloves to accommodate

has thrown away birthday cakes brought in by the team members if they’ve haven’t accommodated for her specific tastes (not allergies, just cake preferences)

I have made some adjustments to work shifts to create better work life balance for the team which has been well received by the team and she has painstakingly reviewed our company policy and flagged why I can’t or shouldn’t have done this despite knowing the team really would benefit. it’s a grey area and at managers discretion as long as it benefits the team with no detriment to the business. which it doesn’t.

Checks up on my own work and that of others. We are all very capable, intelligent people and she takes great pleasure in pointing out of anything looks out of the ordinary which normally back fires as there is a reason for it. It’s just embarrassing that my team or I feel we then need to explain or justify to her (we don’t)

AIBU to think that getting this person out of business is the only reasonable thing to do. Any advice? I’m half joking really. I appreciate times are hard at the moment so don’t like the idea of someone losing their job but she is just awful. How do you deal with people like this? She has been at the company 5 years now and has been awful the entire time. Makes most of us dread working and each interaction leaves a sour taste for days. Always the busiest person, always the person who doesn’t need to muck in. Always a tell tale. Always got an eye over her shoulder despite us being a really nice and supportive team. I mean, aside from this post but it’s past the point of thinking she will see the light.

OP posts:
SallyCinnamon12 · 14/01/2023 09:42

I really want to know if anyone pulled her up on Cakegate, and if so, what did she say?

Surely to god she didn’t just tip a whole birthday cake into the bin with no one asking her what she was doing..?

Purplecatshopaholic · 14/01/2023 09:43

Catspyjamas17 · 14/01/2023 09:02

It seems like by stipulating that you didn't want her to be reporting to you when you returned from mat leave, you have missed a trick in terms of managing her behaviour and managing her out. If she was reporting to you then surely it would be easier to give negative feedback and appraisals, verbal snd written warnings and follow the process of getting rid of her?

This really. Now you are moaning about her from the sidelines as it were. First instance would be to talk to her (clearly very lucky) current line manager, if you have specific work issues. If she’s been nearly sacked loads of times, her appraisals and various paper trails should back this up (but I bet they don’t). People like this can be very draining but she has 5 years service, and likely very little on actual record about the issues, so difficult to get rid of. The Higher Ups could potentially start to tackle it, with HR help, but might not have the desire for the time and effort it would take. Easiest option, sorry, is to remove yourself and get another job.

Agapornis · 14/01/2023 09:43

IVFbeenverylucky · 14/01/2023 09:10

If she really is that awful and everyone, or lots of people, agree with it, then I would suggest you put in a collective grievance, and stress that none of you are prepared to continue working with her.
If it's collective, then HR can't single anyone out, and presumably the company is not going to want to let a whole team go (particularly not with general workplace shortages atm). A company can get rid of someone because lots of employees will not work with them - it's called some other substantial reason in law.
If you are in a Union you could try getting them involved, but I still think the collective grievance is the way to go. Set out a list of bullet points of instances and practices - could be multiple pages long - of all the difficulties, and then make clear you all want to not work with her.

This. I've been involved in a collective grievance after lots of individual complaints, suddenly very swift action was taken!

LakieLady · 14/01/2023 09:44

KimberleyClark · 14/01/2023 09:05

Lighting candles could well be against the company’s health and safety policy.

It's against ours, now, but only because we moved to a building with an incredibly sensitive fire alarm system that somehow automatically calls the fire brigade.

They banned toast temporarily, until they'd got the sensors in the kitchens moved.

pleaseandthankyou45 · 14/01/2023 09:46

I have someone like this. Start ignoring and sideline her. Stop being nice, she sounds awful.

PuppyMonkey · 14/01/2023 09:47

It’s difficult to understand some office set ups tbf, but what I’d be looking at is what is her actual job? What is she supposed to be doing when she’s making her big lists of offences by your team and throwing away birthday cakes? If she’s not doing her proper role well because she’s too tied up interfering with your team, perhaps concentrate on that element. Whoever manages her can call her into a meeting to discuss.

And FWIW, every office I’ve ever worked in, the birthday person brings in cakes.Grin

Cattenberg · 14/01/2023 09:48

OhhhhhhhhBiscuits · 14/01/2023 09:27

Same!

I'm glad I don't work with or for some of the miserable fuckers on here.

Thirded!

Mindymomo · 14/01/2023 09:48

These are the same things my 2 adult sons contend with in their work places. It seems most places have a person employed like this. One has had daily air conditioning problems with just one employee, too cold, yet they sit directly under it and won’t move. My other son has a chap who seems to report everything that goes on, people speaking to each other at other desks, going to the toilet too often, making too many teas etc., They get spoken to but don’t change, my Son will say what he thinks to this chap, but he doesn’t seem to want to change, it’s very sad, as nobody likes him.

Notreadytomakenice · 14/01/2023 09:48

Some people are just difficult. I hear all the things people are saying trying to justify her behaviour, but ultimately if most people are finding interactions with her upsetting/ annoying/ disrespectful something should be done.
when she reports time keeping to you have you ever said ‘xxxx has already let me know and it was only a few minutes so no need for you to worry’?
If she threw cake away my answer would be ‘I believe you threw xxxxx’s cake away, that’s unacceptable, what was your reasoning?’ And take it from there as that’s awful AND stealing.
For the temperature why not get a thermometer and then ensure it’s at the average office temperature all the time?

But I feel your pain, I have worked with some very very hard going individuals who were clearly deeply unhappy people and the impact on the team was immense.
Good luck!!

ExtraJalapenos · 14/01/2023 09:50

Unsure if you managed her or she managed you or if you're same level.

Either way When's there's an issue a chat should be had. If more issues arise then it needs to be a more formal chat. She isn't doing anything sackable. But if she's that much of an arse why hasn't this been bought up? To her face? By everyone she's pissed off?

Climbles · 14/01/2023 09:50

Soontobe60 · 14/01/2023 09:05

My DH might be considered by some of his colleagues to be ‘petty’ because he has to work according to the rules. So is never late, wouldn’t dream of personal use of office resources and would comment to people if they did. It’s not because he wants to be ‘right’, it’s because he can’t comprehend that others might ‘break the rules’. It’s how his brain works. He becomes very anxious and confused when someone rocks up 5 minutes late every day without a good reason. It absolutely drives him bonkers.
He’s not petty, he’s ND. As are many other people in the workplace. But hey, just call them petty and laugh at their issues.

I am in no way laughing at neurodiversity?? You DH should be advised that his behaviour will impact on his relationships at work. Being ND (I am myself) doesn’t mean you can’t learn to understand other people’s perspectives even if it often not as intuitive.

Giggorata · 14/01/2023 09:50

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😂 yes

Womencanlift · 14/01/2023 09:51

Soontobe60 · 14/01/2023 09:00

Was it a kids party? Who has cake and candles and sings happy birthday in the workplace?

Pretty normal for any job I have had from starting in a call centre to working on a trading floor that a cake (usually of the caterpillar variety) would appear for someone’s birthday

Wouldnt necessarily sing but definitely enjoy some cake

Would be a pretty miserable workplace if the small things and people were not celebrated.

The OPs colleague sounds tiresome who doesn’t know/appreciate the office norms and needs that feedback

ChungusBoi · 14/01/2023 09:51

LakieLady · 14/01/2023 09:34

Exactly.

She's not your manager, OP, and she doesn't manage your team.

Where I work, the way to deal with this would be by your line manager speaking to her line manager, and if they didn't deal with it effectively, to your next in line. Someone who's not my manager checking up on my work would massively piss me off. It's outside the remit of her role.

Have you spoken to your manager about, and do they manage her, as well?

I’m also confused as to why you didn’t deal with this before you stopped being her manager. But you are where you are, and this is what I’d do.

As per above, organize a meeting with your manager about it - make notes of all incidents and the way it is impacting on your work and others. How much extra time it takes. Any evidence of how it is demotivating your team. They can approach her manager and HR, who will be very interested to be involved if she has the kind of record you say.

TaRaDeBumDeAy · 14/01/2023 09:52

WhenHarryMetSandro · 14/01/2023 08:21

Some background is that I returned from maternity leave in October and my reduced days (went to 4 days) meant that my maternity cover has remained in the business in a slightly senior role to accommodate my reduced hours and so she has retained some of the admin parts of my role. She was part of the team and was given the ML cover in what I believe was an error of judgement from management. She got it after the person given it went on long term sick leave a week after I left. She was hated at the time by the team. She now has no line management responsibilities and I think misses the control.

She is still hated by the team. She is a micromanager, rude, disrespectful and generally, a jobs worth that tells on people like the teachers pet at school. She isn’t well liked around the rest of the business and people often comment on their displeasure of interacting with her. She will do things to make things harder for my team who are all great, hard working and lovely people. I cannot understand why! They really tolerate her BS most of the time. She will get involved in things that don’t fall under her job just to be a cow and ruin something for someone else. She usually gets nothing but support but she is pushing people to the point of leaving and getting sick of it.

Two of my team left during my ML time because they couldn’t stand her as their manager.

Things she has done recently that makes me think she is an arsehole are as follows :

sent round the company policy about not using the company printers for colour when a team member (worked at the company 10 years, always lovely person) printed out 5 sheets of A4 paper in colour for a charity function as her own printer had shut down whilst printing those last 5 pages. I had given the ok to do this. She knew this and still complained about it.

tells tales to me if my team are 2 minutes late getting to work. I don’t want this level of observation. it’s weird and unneeded.

insists on working in freezing cold temperatures and often sets this to her preference despite it being uncomfortable for the rest of the team who sit in hats and gloves to accommodate

has thrown away birthday cakes brought in by the team members if they’ve haven’t accommodated for her specific tastes (not allergies, just cake preferences)

I have made some adjustments to work shifts to create better work life balance for the team which has been well received by the team and she has painstakingly reviewed our company policy and flagged why I can’t or shouldn’t have done this despite knowing the team really would benefit. it’s a grey area and at managers discretion as long as it benefits the team with no detriment to the business. which it doesn’t.

Checks up on my own work and that of others. We are all very capable, intelligent people and she takes great pleasure in pointing out of anything looks out of the ordinary which normally back fires as there is a reason for it. It’s just embarrassing that my team or I feel we then need to explain or justify to her (we don’t)

AIBU to think that getting this person out of business is the only reasonable thing to do. Any advice? I’m half joking really. I appreciate times are hard at the moment so don’t like the idea of someone losing their job but she is just awful. How do you deal with people like this? She has been at the company 5 years now and has been awful the entire time. Makes most of us dread working and each interaction leaves a sour taste for days. Always the busiest person, always the person who doesn’t need to muck in. Always a tell tale. Always got an eye over her shoulder despite us being a really nice and supportive team. I mean, aside from this post but it’s past the point of thinking she will see the light.

Sounds like a lot of MNers, tbh.

Notreadytomakenice · 14/01/2023 09:53

Soontobe60 · 14/01/2023 09:05

My DH might be considered by some of his colleagues to be ‘petty’ because he has to work according to the rules. So is never late, wouldn’t dream of personal use of office resources and would comment to people if they did. It’s not because he wants to be ‘right’, it’s because he can’t comprehend that others might ‘break the rules’. It’s how his brain works. He becomes very anxious and confused when someone rocks up 5 minutes late every day without a good reason. It absolutely drives him bonkers.
He’s not petty, he’s ND. As are many other people in the workplace. But hey, just call them petty and laugh at their issues.

But that’s clearly his issue to deal with, doesn’t mean everyone should fall in line to placate him or other ND individuals!!

Scottishskifun · 14/01/2023 09:53

First she needs a LM second put in writing that your team are for you to manage with the policy discretion as stated in X.
Whilst you understand their observations it is not their place and therefore going forward would appreciate boundaries being respected. Copy in more senior management.
Each time they start to overcross the mark repeat. It creates a paper trail for starters but generally micromanagement don't overstep if they know senior management is aware of it. Speak to senior management first to ensure they are on the same page in relation to putting in writing. Get your ducks in a row and backed up with policy paragraphs

BluIsTheColour · 14/01/2023 09:53

U have my sympathy. I've had a manager that was a bit like this. She was rude and always said inappropriate (hurtful) things to people, micromanaging and caused an atmosphere. Also had no clue how to do the job and didn't understand my job and therefore some of the issues. She was as useful as a chocolate teapot. It was a much nicer place to work when she wasn't around.

One of my team actually left and threw her under the bus with HR. So we then all got taken in and asked about her behaviour, how we found her etc. I hadn't long started and didn't want to say too much (was still on probation). I just said I thought she was very direct and she can come across as quite rude. She could say things in a nicer way or in a different tone. She's still there now but thankfully doesn't have any direct reports! I don't really deal with her at all now 😃

You/colleagues cld start a grievance process with HR. Might make it more awkward though in the long run or it could possibly help distance her from your team in the end. You might be best to try and have a meeting with her directly and discuss. It's your team so she can keep out of it! if she's anything like my old manager she would twist everything and make out it's your fault! It's worth thinking about your options though. It might come across better with HR if you try to sort it out yourself first.

Climbles · 14/01/2023 09:54

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Wow this is disgustingly disablist

Scottishskifun · 14/01/2023 09:55

Notreadytomakenice · 14/01/2023 09:53

But that’s clearly his issue to deal with, doesn’t mean everyone should fall in line to placate him or other ND individuals!!

This! It's for your DH to work on that skill and coping mechanism in a workplace just like others work on skills of written communication or pivot tables!

Sallyh87 · 14/01/2023 09:56

She throws out other peoples birthdays cakes because it’s the wrong flavour? 😂😂

I don’t understand how that even happens? She walks into the kitchen and chucks the whole thing away?

Mushroo · 14/01/2023 09:59

Happin · 14/01/2023 09:30

She sounds awful, and it sounds like there's a few people like her commenting on this thread 🤣

This! It’s soul destroying working with someone like you describe, turning a nice environment into a toxic one.

It can really bring down team morale, and as you’ve seen, people just leave.

It’s so difficult as well, because she hasn’t done anything ‘wrong’ that you can raise a grievance about.

Could you try just picking her up on stuff? (One to one so it’s not done in a way she can feel you are ganging up on her.

‘Brenda, how come you put the cake in the bin? Next time can you check before you move peoples property?’

‘Brenda, I know you’ve queried the new working pattern, do you have any specific concerns I can look to resolve?’

Stuff like the printer is annoying, but I think you’ll just have to let it slide.

I wonder if all the people commenting in her favour realise how toxic a micro manager can be. Workplaces don’t have to feel like prison camps! The best offices treat everyone as adults, able to make their own decisions, get on with work and plan their day. It makes no difference whatsoever if someone is 2 mins late, as long as the job gets done!

GeneticallyModifiedGrump · 14/01/2023 09:59

I had a woman like this manage me, I left. It was especially fulfilling writing out my 'leaving documents'. In the section where it asked why I was leaving I just wrote her name!
Some people are just arseholes for the sake of it and it can't be managed out of them unfortunately.

TidyDancer · 14/01/2023 10:00

There is someone like this in my workplace. It's not so much the individual behaviours (although they are hugely problematic) but it's the long term effect of having someone like that in the team. It brings down morale, makes people anxious and creates a tense atmosphere.

The one at my work has appointed herself as in charge of one particular task. She's developed an obsession with it to the point where she maintains a spreadsheet detailing anything she feels other colleagues have done wrong. She expects other people to operate exactly how she does (despite a lot of it not making any business sense) and takes joy in telling someone they've done something wrong.

She is absolutely devoid of any emotional intelligence, seems to not tune into any feelings anyone else has. Management are weak and very hands off and have not dealt with her in any meaningful way and as a result it has lead to really good members of staff leaving, citing her behaviour as a big factor.

It's incredibly draining to work in that environment.

WisherWood · 14/01/2023 10:02

I worked with someone who was incredibly difficult. And it was many, many little things that added up. So as with your examples, some people would wonder what all the fuss was about. But actually working with her was just so wearing, because you never knew where the next bombardment was coming from or what it was going to be. Many of them were small things, yes, but it's like water trickling over a surface - eventually it wears a hole in it.

I would keep a diary with dates, times, note of witnesses and a factual description of what happened. Be really careful about this. In your OP you've said:

She was hated at the time by the team. She now has no line management responsibilities and I think misses the control.
a jobs worth that tells on people like the teachers pet at school.
cow
arsehole
tells tales
she is just awful.

Much of this sounds like you bullying her. So stick to the facts of her behaviour rather than making a personal attack on her. You could then go to your management with your concerns about her. But keep it absolutely professional because much of what you're saying comes across as personal and petty. This is the danger with dealing with someone manipulative. You look like the bad guy. Do not fall into that. If management then won't act on your concerns, you can either put up with it or leave. I left as it was affecting my mental health to work with some aggressive and manipulative.