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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To try and get my awful colleague sacked

235 replies

WhenHarryMetSandro · 14/01/2023 08:21

Some background is that I returned from maternity leave in October and my reduced days (went to 4 days) meant that my maternity cover has remained in the business in a slightly senior role to accommodate my reduced hours and so she has retained some of the admin parts of my role. She was part of the team and was given the ML cover in what I believe was an error of judgement from management. She got it after the person given it went on long term sick leave a week after I left. She was hated at the time by the team. She now has no line management responsibilities and I think misses the control.

She is still hated by the team. She is a micromanager, rude, disrespectful and generally, a jobs worth that tells on people like the teachers pet at school. She isn’t well liked around the rest of the business and people often comment on their displeasure of interacting with her. She will do things to make things harder for my team who are all great, hard working and lovely people. I cannot understand why! They really tolerate her BS most of the time. She will get involved in things that don’t fall under her job just to be a cow and ruin something for someone else. She usually gets nothing but support but she is pushing people to the point of leaving and getting sick of it.

Two of my team left during my ML time because they couldn’t stand her as their manager.

Things she has done recently that makes me think she is an arsehole are as follows :

sent round the company policy about not using the company printers for colour when a team member (worked at the company 10 years, always lovely person) printed out 5 sheets of A4 paper in colour for a charity function as her own printer had shut down whilst printing those last 5 pages. I had given the ok to do this. She knew this and still complained about it.

tells tales to me if my team are 2 minutes late getting to work. I don’t want this level of observation. it’s weird and unneeded.

insists on working in freezing cold temperatures and often sets this to her preference despite it being uncomfortable for the rest of the team who sit in hats and gloves to accommodate

has thrown away birthday cakes brought in by the team members if they’ve haven’t accommodated for her specific tastes (not allergies, just cake preferences)

I have made some adjustments to work shifts to create better work life balance for the team which has been well received by the team and she has painstakingly reviewed our company policy and flagged why I can’t or shouldn’t have done this despite knowing the team really would benefit. it’s a grey area and at managers discretion as long as it benefits the team with no detriment to the business. which it doesn’t.

Checks up on my own work and that of others. We are all very capable, intelligent people and she takes great pleasure in pointing out of anything looks out of the ordinary which normally back fires as there is a reason for it. It’s just embarrassing that my team or I feel we then need to explain or justify to her (we don’t)

AIBU to think that getting this person out of business is the only reasonable thing to do. Any advice? I’m half joking really. I appreciate times are hard at the moment so don’t like the idea of someone losing their job but she is just awful. How do you deal with people like this? She has been at the company 5 years now and has been awful the entire time. Makes most of us dread working and each interaction leaves a sour taste for days. Always the busiest person, always the person who doesn’t need to muck in. Always a tell tale. Always got an eye over her shoulder despite us being a really nice and supportive team. I mean, aside from this post but it’s past the point of thinking she will see the light.

OP posts:
Xenopus · 14/01/2023 10:04

Can’t give too many specifics in case outing. I was promoted and person A came in as a back fill, BFFs with the CEO who I reported to. Awful - categorically worse type of behaviour I’ve witnessed. Manipulative, underhand and a bully. Their behaviour cost the company a lot of money and impacted me in my role as well as others. I tried in multiple ways, to both help and calling them out, to then raising with HR and other senior execs. Many were in agreement but it was never addressed as they were chicken shit.

Ultimately I left and sued them. Got a large settlement due to the amount of documentation. Person was let go. They lost over 10 good people due to an inability to act and whilst I got a settlement it’s impacted my earnings in other ways. Big lesson to me on loyalty to companies in the future.

Story is I was v senior and couldn’t get someone without hitting the nuclear button so manage your expectations and consider just going. If it’s true and not being dealt with says a lot about the culture.

Stunningscreamer · 14/01/2023 10:06

WisherWood · 14/01/2023 10:02

I worked with someone who was incredibly difficult. And it was many, many little things that added up. So as with your examples, some people would wonder what all the fuss was about. But actually working with her was just so wearing, because you never knew where the next bombardment was coming from or what it was going to be. Many of them were small things, yes, but it's like water trickling over a surface - eventually it wears a hole in it.

I would keep a diary with dates, times, note of witnesses and a factual description of what happened. Be really careful about this. In your OP you've said:

She was hated at the time by the team. She now has no line management responsibilities and I think misses the control.
a jobs worth that tells on people like the teachers pet at school.
cow
arsehole
tells tales
she is just awful.

Much of this sounds like you bullying her. So stick to the facts of her behaviour rather than making a personal attack on her. You could then go to your management with your concerns about her. But keep it absolutely professional because much of what you're saying comes across as personal and petty. This is the danger with dealing with someone manipulative. You look like the bad guy. Do not fall into that. If management then won't act on your concerns, you can either put up with it or leave. I left as it was affecting my mental health to work with some aggressive and manipulative.

Very good advice.

How often does it happen that the person who winds everyone else up gets all the sympathy, while the person who reacts when at the end of their tether gets called mean girl. But wise to play a longer game.

Branleuse · 14/01/2023 10:09

She sounds like a bad fit for the team and bringing down morale.

BellePeppa · 14/01/2023 10:09

I feel for you. I worked in a place where absolutely everyone hated the line manager, she was an utter cow, had even reduced male colleagues to tears and practically every female and yet higher management were going to promote her to an even higher level of management when she has not one ounce of people skills. I left for other reasons but the thought of never having to see her again had me practically skipping home on my last day.

LemonTT · 14/01/2023 10:10

Sorry but the more this goes on the more I see the OP in the role of David Brent and the colleague as Gareth.

Sadly it sounds nonsense but all too true of many workplaces.

OP you are clearly antagonist towards this person and it will be obvious. Your team will see that and are winding up the situation because they can. It’s bullying. I suggest you look upwards because there people will be pulling their hair out over what is going on.

ancientgran · 14/01/2023 10:10

Soontobe60 · 14/01/2023 09:07

It’s grim. Who wants to eat cake that someone else has blown all over?
I wouldn’t have thrown it away, but I certainly wouldn’t eat it.

Eating it won't be compulsory so if you don't want to eat it then don't, does not give you the right to throw out something that doesn't belong to you.

Teresa777 · 14/01/2023 10:10

Nimbostratus100 · 14/01/2023 08:40

You sound really difficult - none of what you have listed is unusual, even if people have strong opinions about whether it is right or wrong in individual instances. Colour photocopying (forbidden most places where I have worked) bringing in unauthorised cakes ( you dont know the allergies of everyone in the building, many work places are very strict about this sort of thing) saving energy, expecting puncuality - this is all pretty normal in the work place

ANd why would anyone leave because they dont want her to manage them, when it was only a temporary arrangement for maternity leave? SOunds very unlikely that would be the only reason.

You might not like her, but there are people like this in every workplace, and sometimes more than one, It sounds to me like she may be isolated and bullied, which is worse than any of the things she is being accused of

Nope, maybe if each incident was in isolation and a one-off it wouldn't be a huge issue, but the person OP is describing makes some workplaces absolutely fucking toxic causing untold damage on people's mental health.

Re the photocopying - she could have quite easily spoken to the person privately instead of shaming them by email.

"bringing in unauthorised cakes" - don't be so daft! 😂And OP specifically stated it was nothing do with allergies, it was because she just didn't like it.

As PP said, the blame here is higher up - senior management are enabling this behaviour and ultimately it's them that drive the workplace culture, so best advice is look for another job.

Disclaimer - I've only read the first page of this thread, so obviously it's possible OP has since then unravelled herself to be a workplace nightmare too.

Arniesleftleg · 14/01/2023 10:11

This is the main reason I no longer work in corporate.

OP, YANBU, I've worked in this environment and it's very toxic. Hope you get it sorted.

IVFbeenverylucky · 14/01/2023 10:14

How on earth is it possible to have such strong views about the art/science of blowing candles on cakes? Jesus, get a grip, ladies. Some places do, some places don't. It really doesn't matter.

WeAreTheHeroes · 14/01/2023 10:20

I've read all.your posts OP. She thinks very highly of you too. If she's been there for 5 years and is as bad as you say then it's management failure that she hasn't been managed out. It comes across that you think you are a superior manager and you are mates with your team, which isn't always a good thing.

Hadtochangeforthisone · 14/01/2023 10:22

You do know OP, that posters hang around AIBU just to disparage the OP no matter how reasonable their post.
I guess there are a lot of unhappy people on these boards who get a little ego kick to put someone else down. ? Sad I know. Especially as I thought MN was meant to be a supportive forum.

Anyway OP, I will take your post at face value. Without imagining ulterior motive or projecting another narrative.

You colleague sounds a complete PITA.. If nothing else the fact that two staff members left whilst she was managing told me a lot. However, the fault lies with senior management and that is who you need to speak to.
You also need to make sure you don't let things go as 'minor' . (She obviously doesn't) and therefore need to look at the grievance procedures and follow them to the letter..

Meowandthen · 14/01/2023 10:23

Some of you are miserable killjoys. Never heard of a birthday cake and a few minutes of fun in an office? I call BS.

LosCinco · 14/01/2023 10:23

MaverickGooseGoose · 14/01/2023 08:45

You come across as a child. Your examples are all petty. Time to look for something else.

The problem with petty is that it is much harder to deal with and just as soul destroying trying to work with than someone who is openly doing major things.

If you complain you look like you're being petty and for each individual thing they can come back with "oh, sorry an accident" or "it came across wrong" or "I only thought that..."

But it's the amount of stuff that gets you on edge waiting for the next petty behaviour even if you ignore it on the face of it.

I've worked with that situation. Things like finding your mouse unplugged after you've been to the toilet. They're the only other one in the room. You spend 5 minutes trying to find out what's wrong before you plug it back in. Small issue really. You can't really complain because it makes you look petty, and you know they'll either deny it or say something like "oh something was making a funny noise, so I pulled it out to see if it was that, and I thought I'd put it back."
But you know it's personal because it's all things round you that's happening, and you're on edge waiting for the next thing.
Or drawing pins on your chair, chewing gum under the desk, the project you've just printed out to hand to the manager having 2 pages removed from the middle etc. It's all really petty and silly, and each individual issue could have an innocent explanation if it was just a one off.

You also know that if someone does call them out then they'll play the misunderstood and trying to be terribly helpful victim.

DirectionToPerfection · 14/01/2023 10:24

There's a lot of gaslighting towards OP on this thread.

Apparently it's ok for this person to be horrible to her and her colleagues, but the minute OP expresses any (completely understandable) negative reaction to this, she's accused of being a bully.

Honestly, can you hear yourselves?

Allergictoironing · 14/01/2023 10:25

Totally with you @WhenHarryMetSandro , and have worked with this type of person in the past. Hard to get them out, because they stop JUST short of it being a sack-able offence after 2 years in the job. And it isn't the seriousness of the (usually petty) individual things they do, it's the cumulative effect of it all going on relentlessly.

To the pp who seemed to think ND just means ASD - it means anyone who's brain works differently from the typical hence NeuroDIVERSE e.g. ASD (which is the current term for autism), ADHD, dyslexia, dyspraxia etc. Still no excuse for interfering with a team that the person doesn't manage, or being a PITA.

The suggestion that the team get together and "discuss" this with the person would be a bullying charge just waiting to happen, same with some of the other suggestions about talking it over with the person bearing in mind the OP is no longer her line manager.

There are many comments on this thread that seem to pick up on single incidents and to justify those situations, but a) if you don't work in the exact same environment as the OP then you can't possibly know what is/isn't acceptable there, b) it is not this person's place to enforce rules (e.g. the cake thing, if there really is a rule), c) the OP has made it clear that these are just examples, and the most minor ones at that to reduce the chances of identification and d) unless you've worked with someone like this, you can't imagine just how awful it can make your working day.

I can also see why the OP made it a condition of her return to not have to manage this person. Even the very best manager in the world can't turn round somebody who doesn't care, or is determined that they are right despite being the only one who thinks so. If the OP wasn't a valued manager, then HR/senior management wouldn't have accepted this demand in the first place.

It's just so very tiring to have to deal with this day in day out - been there, got the t-shirt, was a factor in me quitting one job. The only thing you can really do in this kind of situation is to have a long chat with your own line manager or even the next level up, ensuring that you bring evidence of all the cases of over-stepping and inappropriate behaviour and not just a sample like above - maybe keep a diary? You could possibly push for them to be moved into a different area, where not only will they not impact on your team but if they continue behaving like this in the new role then there will be justification for your complaints.

I wish you luck OP, it's a horrible situation to be in. Keep pushing back on her comments (I manage my team MY way), and keep that diary!

Vinvertebrate · 14/01/2023 10:25

You sound unprofessional. I’d like to hear her side of it tbh.

freyamay74 · 14/01/2023 10:25

@WeAreTheHeroes the OP used to manage this woman, but made it a condition of her return from ML that this woman wouldn't report to her any more!

She bottled out of managing her effectively but is now sniping from the sidelines.

Seeing as this woman has supposedly almost been sacked multiple times before, why wasn't she sacked while on the OP's watch?

This is sounding more and more like the OP is a weak manager and is more comfortable bitching from the sidelines than actually having the balls to deal with the situation head on

DanceCapital · 14/01/2023 10:29

They sound awful but nothing you have mentioned warrants dismissal. Except throwing away cake, I don’t care who you are, if I bring in cake no one is throwing it away apart from me.

OngoingCrisis · 14/01/2023 10:30

OP: someone is creating an uneasy working environment

Replies: BIRTHDAY CAKE???!!!¿¿¿

Sakura7 · 14/01/2023 10:30

freyamay74 · 14/01/2023 10:25

@WeAreTheHeroes the OP used to manage this woman, but made it a condition of her return from ML that this woman wouldn't report to her any more!

She bottled out of managing her effectively but is now sniping from the sidelines.

Seeing as this woman has supposedly almost been sacked multiple times before, why wasn't she sacked while on the OP's watch?

This is sounding more and more like the OP is a weak manager and is more comfortable bitching from the sidelines than actually having the balls to deal with the situation head on

You think it's easy to manage this kind of behaviour out of someone?

People like this rarely change. OP was well within her rights to make the request she did, and clearly the company didn't consider it unreasonable.

cocktailclub · 14/01/2023 10:31

It's not either fair or likely to happen to sack someone who adheres to company policy.
You managed her previously and have not addressed her behaviour.
It sounds personal and not as if she is breaking any rules (although you are)
If you can't work with her then you need to leave

TheOinkySplit · 14/01/2023 10:32

Is there no way you could try and solve this without her being sacked?

Bookkeys · 14/01/2023 10:33

IVFbeenverylucky · 14/01/2023 09:16

All the stuff on ND: It can't be used as a defence every time someone criticises someone at work or in their personal life for being difficult or unreasonable.
It's also a silly term - totally meaningless. If you mean Aspergers' syndrome, then say so. If you mean something else, say that too.

FWIW I'm dyslexic, but I'm not ND. I think it's daft and offensive. My brother has severe disabilities, including autism, but he's not ND. He's not on the ASD. He's severely disabled.

@Soontobe60 If your DH "has" to comment on people breaking rules (like being 2 minutes like ffs), then just tell him it's a rule to not comment. Which it sort of is anyway. A social rule.

I agree

So many people these days declaring themselves as ND because they've read a few traits on Google that relate to them

DirectionToPerfection · 14/01/2023 10:33

cocktailclub · 14/01/2023 10:31

It's not either fair or likely to happen to sack someone who adheres to company policy.
You managed her previously and have not addressed her behaviour.
It sounds personal and not as if she is breaking any rules (although you are)
If you can't work with her then you need to leave

Bullying would be very much against company policy, so no, she's not adhering to it.

Chiconbelge · 14/01/2023 10:34

So you are a manager yourself but she doesn’t report to you because this was stipulated on your return? Who stipulated this and what was their reasoning? She has been allocated work that was previously part of your role - can someone within your team do it instead? Sounds like a crazy idea to take some of the work out of the team when it still affects them - it’s only thought to be 1 day a week of your role as it was previously. You need to start thinking and talking like a manager not like someone without any management responsibility or power yourself.