To be worried about school shootings/guns?

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DW, American, has the opportunity to take a great job in a US East coast city. She's keen, having lived her for 20 years, to go for a few years ( maybe more) with the kids. She was approached for this role, wasn't seeking it, nor have we be planning on ever living in the USA, though it has come up from time to time.

Apart from the obvious - we'd be uprooting our 11 and 13 year olds who are very happy, settled in school, I'd have to find a job ( though could get a green card as we're married), we have a fantastic community and network around us which I find particularly helpful as I do the most of the 'wife work' on top of my FT time job as DW is the main earner by a long chalk, we'd be moving to a city where we know no-one at all...

I'm really GENUINELY worried about the safety of our kids going to a school in the US. I don't want them to have shooter drills and all that comes with it. I don't want to take them on what we could dress up as an adventure where we have to worried about the gun culture in the city were in. As an East coast city it does have stricter gun laws, but pretty much anyone can still have a weapon.

Is that a daft reason to refuse to go? My career and aspirations there are 2nd as I could maybe maybe transfer with my current company, and I'm acutely aware of all DW has given up to live in the UK all this time with me.

@TheMagicSword makes a very good point re holiday allowance. If your wife isn't going to be on much more money, she's effectively taking a massive pay cut when you take US vs U.K. holiday allowances into account.

Once you add on the cost of school fees - which will be over $100k a year for two kids in senior school - it seems an absolutely crazy thing to do.

I went to high school in America on the in the early 2000s, I can’t say that I ever thought much of the shooter drills. We practised hurricane drills too which seemed more likely to happen in a southern state on the East Coast.

We lived in quite an affluent area and whenever a crime happened within a few miles of the school (like a robbery) all of the school doors automatically locked. We had our own school resource officers too. I always felt pretty safe!

Well I would, for 200K!
Not to dismiss your family's experiences but first responders always see the worst of any city. Not all of Baltimore is a total hellhole, and it's a great city in so many other ways.
People used to say the same things about DC (when I lived there) but it was entirely possible to live there with no problems and now it's one of the safest and most popular places to live on the East Coast.

Anyway you're probably talking about Boston or DC so it doesn't matter. I'm just thinking that if you're willing to write off an entire city you may not be prepared for city life in the US in general. Even in the safer cities you have to be much more street smart than in the UK.

Shame for your wife though, who can never live in her home country again.

I wouldnt do it. She didnt 'give up' a load of stuff, she made a choice to settle and have children in one country. I dont think those ages are very easy to move, when you're that age your friends are everything and fitting into a new culture / country and friendship group may not be easy. And if they do fit in and love it then they wont come back so it may be a permanent move.

The benefits dont sound worth the payoff. It's only a slight increase in salary, she is still a 10 hour drive from her parents (how is she going to fit that in with a 50 hour week), surely it isnt much longer to fly to them now. Unless your kids are desperate to try it I wouldn't.

I'm speaking as someone who moved at a similar age for a parents opportunity.

Just one consideration: if your children want to go to university in the UK, you will need to have been resident here for the previous three years, otherwise you pay international fees and don't have access to student loans.

'I am sorry if this sounds ignorant but this thread has intrigued me. I know about the school shootings but I often figured that it was sensationalized like 'knife crime in London'. I don't have teens but I would not move children out of London because of knife crime which is in very specific locations and often with a very specific demographic.'

Every American with kids I know ( family and colleagues) are ALL very worried about guns. Not just school shootings - although that terrifies them and they HATE that their children have bulletproof backpacks and are being traumatised by 'shooter drills' - but guns in general.

The fact anyone could have one. Including kids/teens.
Guns are now the #1 killer of children in the USA - 100 children a week are killed because of a firearm. And that's not including those injured.
When their kids go for sleepovers they assess whether there's a gun in that house, and is it likely to be properly locked up? from my experience, no.
DW family is from a hunting state, every one has guns, hardly any of them are kept in gun safes or lockers.

USA schools have their own police because of guns. The guy you argue with at the traffic lights could have a gun. You just don't know.

So I do think it's different, because this gun culture is everywhere - some states more than others, Texas = everyone and their granny has semi-automatic, hands guns, or rifles. Maine - less semis more hunting rifles, some hand guns.

Knife crime in London is still very much contained within areas, gang related... but 100 kids a year aren't dying because of gang crime in the US.

Surely with only a slight salary increase hut paying excesses on healthcare and school fees you're going to be worse off financially?

She didnt 'give up' a load of stuff, she made a choice to settle and have children in one country.

This is worth highlighting again as it's so true. She chose to live in the UK and have children who were born and brought up in the UK. She hasn't sacrificed living in the US as that was never her plan.

I think at the end of the day the children should be put first. Moving them may well be a lovely adventure or a complete fucking nightmare that screws up their friendships, educational prospects and possibly their exam results. They won't have any risk of that if they stay where they are so it seems selfish to move them in the hope everything will be fine when it was never on the cards.

Even apart from the guns, can you imagine moving over there and a year later Donald Trump winning the presidency again?!?

Exactly. Yikes.

The fentanyl crisis, too. Terrifying. I don't think I could, regardless of liberal bubble.

'Surely with only a slight salary increase hut paying excesses on healthcare and school fees you're going to be worse off financially?'

With US taxes etc even after fees ( if we pay them) we'd be a bit better off. Work also covers ALL medical, incl out of pocket.

It's not about the money really. It would be an amazing job too, prestigious etc
But it's mainly that as her parents age she'd like to be closer.

This is a good site for anyone interested in gun crime rates in the US: www.gunviolencearchive.org

It's a non-profit based in Washington DC. Their methodology seems pretty robust and according to their stats, 55 children under the age of 18 have been killed in gun incidents THIS YEAR.

I would have the same reservations. I don't think uprooting the kids is a terrible idea if they are very keen on it. If they didn't want to go, it would be off the table for me. I also would be really anxious about my children being in a school there.
I have a v small support network here, it makes things difficult. Honestly, unless everyone was wildly keen, it would be a no for me.

The fentanyl crisis, too.

This is the shock for me. I lived in the Midwest for a few years and it's horrifying how many of my friends and colleagues from my time there are personally affected by it.

I wouldn’t personally want my children to go to school in America, it may be alarmist of me and I know it’s statistically unlikely they would be impacted but just the fact that they would have to think about the possibility let alone go through drills and god forbid actually be involved in one is enough for me to say no.

'She chose to live in the UK and have children who were born and brought up in the UK. She hasn't sacrificed living in the US as that was never her plan.'

Actually, living in the UK was never her plan. She was happy in the USA until we met and I couldn't move to the US at the time, as our same sex partnership wasn't recognised so she moved here instead so we could live together.

Op is this thread changing your mind either way? What do you think you’ll do

To be honest there's no point in asking MN for advice on this. It's something very few have had to seriously consider and they don't know your kids like you do. I would have a family discussion weighing up the pros and cons. You've already said your eldest seems up for it.

Actually, living in the UK was never her plan. She was happy in the USA until we met and I couldn't move to the US at the time, as our same sex partnership wasn't recognised so she moved here instead so we could live together.

Fair enough but the point still stands that she made that choice. You can't make a choice that important and then get annoyed that the other people affected by the choice don't agree years later if you change your mind.

It sounds like a good opportunity but she doesn't sound like she's putting the children first or considering key things like how important a support network is it all feels likes she's looking at the opportunity with some very rose tinted glasses.

This thread is a great illustration in the way that we make assumptions about people (and not just 'wife work')!

Personally I would be on the next plane notwithstanding the real concerns outlined here. Guns and opioids are not fanciful worries and they would play on my mind. But I would also see it as a great opportunity to live overseas near(ish) to the greatest city in the world and to experience a whole new way of life. It's the most 'secure' way you could do it given the excellent support package your wife will have and if you hate it you can always all return.

Could you children attend an international school?

School shootings would not be a factor for me in this decision. Although the number of shootings is horrifying, statistically the risk is still extremely small.

I think you need to think through how permanent a move you expect this to be and the knock-on effects on your children (esp re eg university applications). But I'd do it, in your shoes. Sounds like a great opportunity for your wife and an adventure for you all.

How old are your parents, if you end up staying in the US because you don't want to uproot you DC again then they don't want to move back - what about them aging and you not being in the UK?

TBH the more you have said about guns in homes, on the street, deaths per week the more I'd not want to go.

If it is a 10/12 hour drive from the state you are thinking about to her parents isn't it quicker from UK to fly to them?
I would worry about gun crime in USA with teenagers going to school but also socially just going into the city alone or with their friends, just out and about iyswim

Yes this is what is so interesting

This is a chance to live in one of the nicest cities in the US, with lots of money, kids in international school, excellent healthcare, already speak the language, you can always leave if you don't like it.... I mean, it's a better life than probably 95% of Americans or British people, but still something to turn your nose up at apparently.

They would probably end up in some tony east coast suburb yet people think they'll be surrounded by guns and gangbangers and meth heads.

I was given the chance to move to America in my early twenties as my brothers had emigrated and were happy to sponsor me or whatever it’s called. One lives in the suburbs of Chicago, a very nice suburb. This was 30 years ago. When I was visiting him there was a news report on how many children had been killed in the previous year by guns, the stat was no where near as high as now but was still shocking and that was one of the main reason I decided not to go. My brother was going to even get me a decent job, he was really high up in a global company.

There was a shooting at the Highland Park 4 July parade last year it is a really nice suburb. I have shopped and been out to lunch in that place a few times over the years as my brother lives not so far from it. He was not involved as had gone to Boston with his wife to see his DD. I remember feeling really sick until I managed to get hold of him. I knew the whole family were together for July 4 but was unsure who was travelling to see who.

It would be a hard no form me, plus moving children at that age is tough on them. But your wife is actually American so I can see why she just isn’t in the same headspace as you.