To be worried about school shootings/guns?

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DW, American, has the opportunity to take a great job in a US East coast city. She's keen, having lived her for 20 years, to go for a few years ( maybe more) with the kids. She was approached for this role, wasn't seeking it, nor have we be planning on ever living in the USA, though it has come up from time to time.

Apart from the obvious - we'd be uprooting our 11 and 13 year olds who are very happy, settled in school, I'd have to find a job ( though could get a green card as we're married), we have a fantastic community and network around us which I find particularly helpful as I do the most of the 'wife work' on top of my FT time job as DW is the main earner by a long chalk, we'd be moving to a city where we know no-one at all...

I'm really GENUINELY worried about the safety of our kids going to a school in the US. I don't want them to have shooter drills and all that comes with it. I don't want to take them on what we could dress up as an adventure where we have to worried about the gun culture in the city were in. As an East coast city it does have stricter gun laws, but pretty much anyone can still have a weapon.

Is that a daft reason to refuse to go? My career and aspirations there are 2nd as I could maybe maybe transfer with my current company, and I'm acutely aware of all DW has given up to live in the UK all this time with me.

We’re a UK/US household which could have a considerably higher income in the US (but also considerably higher outgoings and precious little vacation time). We have agreed that, all other factors aside, guns are why we will never live there with our children. It’s not just the chance of an actual shooting, it’s the day to day stress of it - searches, drills, etc. Having to ask the parents of your children’s friends about guns in their house before you let your children visit (not everyone believes in keeping them locked up). We’re not anti-gun at all, but we spend enough time in the US and have enough friends and family there to know that the situation there now is just not one we’re willing to live in.

Id also suggest that while 11 and 13 are reasonable ages to move school, in 2+ years it’ll be a really bad time to move back to the UK. I know if we were to move at that age it would end up being a more or less permanent move due to the cycle of exams, college, etc.

I wouldn't. I would have considered it 20 years ago before I had children but not now. But my situation is that I don't have family ties.

Is it anywhere near to her family? Because to me that is the deciding factor really. If it's moving and will be closer to her family, then I'd consider it more than if it were a move to California but all her family are in New York, for example.

I'm not sure I think the cultural/expand your horizons benefits outweighs the negatives. Especially if it might mean that longterm my children settle in a country I'm not comfortable living in.

It seems like you are happy in the UK and have a good life here. Also with your children being the ages that they are, I'd stay here. Have you sounded it out with the children and how they would feel?
Also, what does your wife want to do?
I would also be terrified sending my kids to school in the US. I know school shootings are probably statistically unlikely as someone else said, but they still seem pretty common.
I know others have said don't let that be the deciding factor , but if it's going to worry you from day to day, it's an important factor.

I think I’d stick with holidays as long as you can manage, and wait until your youngest is at Uni/apprenticeship. @TheMagicSword gosh the asking your Childrens’ matés’ parents whether they have guns and where they keep them is something I hadn’t thought about before. But yes, so much potential for accidents. Especially so because kids get over-excited on play dates/hang outs.

I worry about ponds/ upstairs windows etc when there are little (guest) kids running about, but that worry will never go away if there’re guns in the house.
Shudder.

How terrifying. No child should ever have to go through that xx

The older one wants to go, has romantic notions of the US ( we go 2x a year for holidays/family) the younger one we haven't mentioned anything to yet as it would still be 6 months away if at all.
Both kids make friends at the drop of a hat, and have sports that are transferable to US. In fact, that would be an advantage. Their sports are very well supported in US, more so than here.
Schools - we'd probably use a British School as we are planning on coming back but that would be TBC. But that means any extra money is sued up on fees, and out kids here are in state school. In general we don't believe in a 2-tier school system.

I don't know. We've been able to go this whole time and have never bitten the bullet. I know that crime and drugs have affected so many US family members, directly or indirectly, it's left me feeling I wouldn't want to live there.
However - on a certain salary - quality of life in the US can be amazing.

The reality is DW is American, kids are half American and can really tell her we can't try living in her home country when she's lived in mine, because if me, for 20years??

My worry would be ,they are at an age where they may settle in UAS after education,gets jobs ,partners ,marry ,kids …and you end up having to stay there forever or end up bacon U.K. and your kids families are in USA

Couldn’t pay me enough to live in the US. It’s going backwards.

I moved at 13 and it was absolutely awful. I think it would be a bit much to move them at 11 and 13, and then back again at 14 and 16. The 16 year old in partricular will be gearing up for exams, will have an all-consuming social scene, school based hobbies, and so on. Moving back to the UK would be really hard on them I think, and their grades will suffer as the exams and content will be different. If I were you I would either keep the option on the table for 8 years' time, when everyone is off at uni, or move but plan to make it permanent. Be prepared for your children potentially deciding to stay, if you wait until their US schooling is over to move back.

I think that it could be a great opportunity for your family, and they're good ages in the sense that there is no schooling interrupted. But think carefully about the return ages.

I admit I'd be scared to live and work in the US due to the gun crime though I love the country.

If a person can be told they can't move their children away to a different county to keep them where they have a support network etc. then yes I think you can (to answer just your last question).

Maybe I just have no sense of adventure, but I could never move countries without the 100% agreement of everyone in my family. Especially if I'd made a decision to emigrate and then decided I might want to move back.

Is DW really really enthusiastic about it considering it wasn't something she was actively chasing?

'That's quite a nasty thing to say about Baltimore.'

My DSIL is an EMT in Baltimore, her DP is a firefighter there too... And I have been to Baltimore. Sorry if it seems harsh saying we wouldn't think of living there, but it has been hit incredibly hard by the opoid crisis, the police are incredibly corrupt, and their crime rate is one of the worst in the country. Their violent crime stats are very high, and not just the usual gang/crime stuff either.
I can't think of anyone I know in the USA who would relocate to Baltimore with their family.

I'd also be concerned about the backslide in women's rights in the US at the moment, and the rise of the conservative right (although sadly that's a problem we have here as well). Would you be moving to a state where women have the right to decide what happens to their own bodies?

For me, the DC's education and upheaval for them would be my primary concern over and above other worries.

If they were under 10 then it may work but not at your DC ages. Don't underestimate kids friends, roots and your happiness.

As you know they are entering a very important stage of education. You won't be able to come back and make the transition mid-way in GCSE's, so I guess it's now or once they've finished (i.e the whole secondary education in either the UK or USA).

Is your wife able to mix her work between here and there? She's already doing long hours.

Oh, and DW has also just said that although the job preference is to be US based for the right candidate they could be based in the Paris office, and travel to US for big meetings...

So yes, she really does want to go to the US, as apparently France is off the cards for her...

I think I would also be worried about education standards, especially at that age. They could potentially return to the UK disadvantaged. Hasn't there been an issue recently with American schools giving service personal spouses jobs as teachers purely based on the fact they are military spouses and not experience / education? Or have I misunderstood that?

The US is nice to visit but I wouldn’t want to live there.

What Year Is your 13 year old? Are they starting year 10 in September? I think you’ve really missed the boat if they are.

There is still time to move out there when they are university age which isn’t that far off really.

'Would you be moving to a state where women have the right to decide what happens to their own bodies?'

Yes, and that's not likely to change. We'd be in our liberal bubble. As a gay family, our safety and rights are #1 factor in where we travel, holiday, live

Is it that much better when you take into account living costs and school fees?

So hard when you want different things. I know we’re too settled here but then it sounds like your DW is very keen

I think you need a really good discussion to bottom out just how important this is to your wife. Has she been pushing towards it, or has it come up because an opportunity happens to have come up. All the factors discussed so far look different if staying in the UK would make her miserable and resentful.

I am sorry if this sounds ignorant but this thread has intrigued me. I know about the school shootings but I often figured that it was sensationalized like 'knife crime in London'. I don't have teens but I would not move children out of London because of knife crime which is in very specific locations and often with a very specific demographic.

'Is your wife able to mix her work between here and there? She's already doing long hours.'

She wouldn't want to be separate from the kids. She works long hours but 3 days at home so is around at breakfast, dinner, weekends etc.
Travel a week here and there is one thing but she wont leave the children for extended periods of time, nor would I. She travelled a lot (2-3 weeks in a month) when the children were babies/toddlers and one of her biggest regrets now is missing out on that time with them.

The job found your DW rather than her seeking it out, and you weren't planning on making a move, so unless her work can be accommodated in both countries I would dismiss it for now.

However, as it's piqued your interest a bit you can always consider it when the kids are older.

Irrelevant but I’d move to Paris at the drop of a hat. I love New York, but the kids education ifs the most important thing, and I think you’d have to move quite far out to get that. As I say, Long Island or somewhere.

Which would mean a crazy commute.

Or a school an exclusive school in Manhattan where values would almost certainly be skewed, shall we say.

I was uprooted when I was 13 to a country where I didn't speak the language, let alone know the culture, have friends etc... I had to build all that from scratch. I won't say it was easy, but looking back it definitely enriched my life in ways that I am grateful for.. and gave me compassion for people who are not living in their home country (I now work with asylum seekers).

We are also considering moving to the states in the next year or two.. DH is English and I am from the states. We're also concerned about a lot these issues in the states at the moment... but as someone else said, I think statistically the likelihood of shootings is smaller than we think.
Also there are many benefits to living in the states (for us personally, to be closer to my family is a big one), and also other things like more opportunities for big adventures.. Americans are good at the road trips, hiking, mountain biking, rock climbing, surfing, backpacking, camping adventures etc. that we really want our kids to experience.. and which isn't so integrated into life here in England (at least not in the same level of 'wildness' as in the states).
Also I think Americans often get a lot of bad rep, but generally they are very enthusiastic and open people, and I found the kids to be more warm and welcoming than kids in England throughout primary school. I think this can also be very enriching for kids...In the short period I lived in the states as a young teenager, my introvertedness and shyness was seriously challenged, and I became a more open and adventurous person myself... because that is what I experienced around me.

I would miss a certain sense of stability if we left the UK... however, everywhere has it's benefits and downsides... and the USA isn't an exception. There are some great benefits imho.