To discourage friendship - gun in house

[Concernedrethis]

So more of a WWYD?

NC again. Possibly outing.

Moved to rural area two years ago. DS (Year 6) has struggled to find his feet. Been bullied horribly. Has three school friends. Some non school friends now.

Recently, one of his school friends (who has male older siblings) told me that his dad has a gun, has a gun licence, has let him shoot it and keeps it for something (I can’t remember what) ‘and protection’.

I have had a few interactions with the parents and they seem nice. They live in town in a terrace house, not a farm.

What would you do?

Previously my DS has been at the house once for a birthday party. They live close by so likely will walk together to and from school when they go up to ‘big school’.

I don’t know how the gun is kept. I don’t know the older siblings well.

Would I be unreasonable to not allow my DS to go to their house? WIBU to ask the mum about it?

I have never known anyone with a gun before. UK based.

To be honest my first thought was that the child might be showing off/lying. I would politely ask the parents about it and emphasise that the child told you he was allowed to shoot a gun and see what they say..

Just ask the parents. A decent shotgun certificate holder will show you where the gun is kept and assure you that child does not know where keys are kept.
Rules are really stringent re shotguns and getting a certificate. I’m a certificate holder and have had all kinds of interviews etc with licensing.
Kids say all kinds of stuff but if the dad had suggested a gun for protection he would be flat denied a certificate.

It would be a no from me too and the comment re protection is a red flag.

You can't possibly know what goes on in that house so the risk is unacceptable and uneccessary.

I'd be a bit concerned that they have thr gun for protection. Protection from who or what as they live in a town not rural miles from anywhere. Do the police grant licencing of guns for protection?

It wouldn't bother me if kept locked up and parents seemed responsible, but my mother's family were farmers so I'm used to being around them. Kitchen knives are much more easily accessible and I'd imagine they cause much more deaths given how many teens walk around with them. I'd be more worried about knives for sure.

In UK all legally-held gun owners are licensed and it's a condition of the licence that they are stored unloaded and secured in a specialist locked gun cupboard.

I've lived in rural areas for 40+ years where a number  of  neighbours own guns ; they are highly security conscious  so  no concerns at all about my kids playing in their homes.

I would not allow my child in the house but would encourage the friendship it our house.

However safe people think the guns are if you have a pre/teen wanting to show off you just never know what they’ve been watching and how much they might have noticed about how to access it. Never mind the fact that clearly some rules are not being kept.

A gun in a locked cabinet is harmless. The gun will not shoot itself. It will only be an issue if someone with nefarious intentions gets their hands on it. And someone who is that way inclined would be just as dangerous even if there were no gun on the premises. Are you going to ban your child from being friends with people who have kitchen knives, chainsaws, anything that can start a fire such as matches? It’s not the weapon, it’s the user that’s the concern.

Can I ask what the people who would encourage the friendship but not allow their child to visit the house, fear happening?

The only thing the OP has said which is off, is that a 10/11 year old has reportedly said their parent keeps a gun for protection - which would a be wholly inappropriate attitude, and definitely not a permitted reason for gun ownership by a private individual, but atm OP doesn't know if this is actually the parents' view, or a bit of stupid showing off/making things up by a child bragging to his wee pals, or even a child's mistranslation or misspeaking (crop protection?).

No suggestion that any storage rules have been broken. Nor any suggestion, that if the friend is telling the truth, that he was allowed to fire the gun anywhere other than somewhere authorised and safe to do so, under close supervision and instruction by a parent and adult licence holder - which would be perfectly legal, and not inappropriate for a 10/11 year old in year 6 if they're physically big enough and emotionally mature enough to concentrate and follow instruction.

Are you frightened that the children will get the gun out of one locked and discretely hidden cabinet, the cartridges out of another, play with them and someone will get hurt? Highly unlikely to have the opportunity, because the father will be being careful with security measures and the keys. But moreover, in my experience (and I am a child of target shooters myself and grew up in a house full of firearms) the children of people with actual guns in the UK are very very mindful of the rules and safety and never ever touching mummy's or daddy's guns (unless, when old enough, under direct instruction) as that's drilled into you from the moment you can crawl ("my dad's got a real gun" style stupid boasting notwithstanding). Just the same as you will have done with every potentially dangerous object in your own house. Do you think your 11 year old would take a visiting friend off to play with the wickedly sharp chef's knives you keep on the kitchen counter, or the power tools on the bench in the garage, or help themselves to your car key from the hall because they know where it is and take your car for a lethal joy ride round the neighbourhood?

I was brought up in a farming community. It's very common to have guns. But they have to be stored securely.

Speak to the parents and voice your concerns. I am Certain you will be reassured. However if you aren't just have him to come to your house.

You will also be surprised at the freedom farm kids have and that may also concern you so you need to talk

You are one of those annoying townies who invade the countryside with no clue about rural life and then complain about it.
Expecting peoplen not to cull vermin, no mud on the roads, no bad smells etc etc

What do you mean, "unrestricted"? Why said anything about that? Rural families often own a shotgun or two, & it's not uncommon for rural kids to have mum or dad teach them target practice, clays, or rough shooting.

If you misreported a situation you know bugger-all about, your local PCSO would have your card marked as a troublemaker who doesn't understand gun regulations & is prone to making unsubstantiated accusations.

I think you're being very unreasonable. Prejudiced even. This is not the USA where people leave loaded handguns around where children can find them. Any shotgun certificate or firearms licence holder will have been rigourously checked out by the police. No criminal record. No suspicious behaviour. No bad associations on social media. Heck, even speeding is enough to mean you lose your guns. Any certificate holder will have guns safely locked away, as required by law, and probably the keys locked away in a different place - required against nosy children.

Guns are necessary tools. You don't stop someone visiting because their dad has a chainsaw in the garage, despite knowing how dangerous they are. If you are genuinely concerned then talk to the parents but I think you should examine your own prejudices first. Ignorance about guns and the country way of life is not an acceptable excuse for prejudice. It's hurtful for people to assume we are dangerous careless people capable of manslaughter.

If the parents are responsible gun owners as many in the country are then they will have absolutely no issue chatting to you about how the gun is stored etc. Just talk to them like a normal person would rather than just assuming they are keep it loaded on the kitchen table.

You are being very naïve. I have a family member who owned a shotgun. He has 6 children aged 4-14. He allowed the 13 and 14 year olds to shot the gun in the garden with the younger children present (rural area but some houses closeby). The 14 year old pointed the gun at his mother messing. The 13 year old realized the safety was broken. I know this because they told me the story and thought it was funny.
The neighbors reported him for repeatedly shooting the gun in the garden and the police came and took the gun away.
He had the gun for months before this happened. Some people are idiots.

OP as others said if they are responsible gun owners they wont mind you asking them questions about it.

I live in rural Devon and there are a few gun-owners in the village, mostly farmers (never known a farmer who didn’t have guns) but also hobby shooters. Remember, when the zombies come, the more gun-owners we know, the safer we will be.

@Diorama1 I think we can agree that it was right for him to lose his guns and the OP should never allow her child around that kind of behaviour. He is no longer a shotgun certificate holder. They get weeded out.

I bet he was a twat regardless of the guns too.

When I was an adolescent, I knew a girl whose younger brother had accidentally shot dead the other brother while playing with his Dad's shotgun. (This was in the UK.)
The family were devastated of course.
In your circumstances OP, I would think it entirely reasonable to ask the mum/dad what procedures they have in place to GUARANTEE that the gun is safely locked away from the reach of any children at all times.

I would echo the comments further down the chain. I grew up in a semi-rural community and did .22 rifle shooting from 11 years old at a local club right through to university team and had a firearms licence from the youngest age possible (had sponsors in the captain of the county team and others). Stopped through my 20s and 30s when I lived in big cities around the world. Now live again in a fairly rural community and do clay pigeon plus pest control. My 11 year old son does clay pigeon shooting at school and they had a parents and kids day and about 50% of the parents brought their own guns - that's mums as well as dads. For people in rural communities it is and always has been a sport and putting food on the table - it's not like the Top Boy TV series (that's what I keep my kids away from - TV shows that portray murderous, back-stabbing, gun toting drug dealers as the cool guys in a drama made by middle class producers looking for ratings and who have never actually experienced the negative side of that kind of society). For most of us in the country shooting is like fishing.

Do you keep the gun locked up ? Yes. Do you keep your car keys, and alcohol and paracetomol and bleach and the kitchen knives out of reach of small children at home ? Yes. Do you put the brake on the kids' buggy on a station platform and hold the kids' hands when you cross a busy road ? Yes. Obviously.

I think there are about 30 deaths by shooting in the UK each year and they are mostly gang related. Not clay pigeon shooters. There are about 250 deaths from drink driving - do you interrogate other parents about their drinking history or ask to see their driver's licence history before they pick your kids up for a play date ? There are nearly 2000 deaths a year on the roads - is there any real lobbying to make all cars restricted in maximum speed and acceleration ? The technology had been around for decades..... We can get concerned about things with little real reason but let other more threatening things pass us by because it is 'our normal' in the community we have grown up in.

Why do a sport which involves something which could, if used in such a way, kill someone even though there is no material evidence of danger from legal participants in shooting sports ? Fair question. Why congregate in millions around TVs watching football, a sport which has probably engendered more partisan, racist, alcohol fuelled, group biased violence than any other ? Because it suits people not to, without assessment of the social risk and because it's 'their norm'.

Gun in a proper gun safe, and it is kept there all the time with no access to it - maybe.

Gun that is being messed with, kids shooting it for fun etc. - never.

How about speaking to the family concerned. Chances are, yes the Father may have a gun. But the childs claim of messing around with it is likely bravado. If they do have a legal gun, there is no way he would risk his license letting kids play with it.

Gun ownership in rural communities is not unusual - about 1 in 10 of the rural population owns a shotgun. It will be either a shotgun (vermin, game, clay pigeon) or (rarely) a rifle if the owner is an estate worker.

I have a shotgun for competitions and my ds has on occasions been to a shooting ground with me. I also have a gun licence, an approved gun cabinet bolted to a wall which the local firearms officer has tried at length to lever of the wall with no success, and ds has no idea where I keep the keys.

Just ask the mum about the gun, she won't mind.

Making a fuss will just mark your ds out, in a community where this really is no big deal. This isn't the US. People don't carry handguns under the seat of the car.

Is it just an air gun? We had one and sure my parents still do. We used to do family target practice, it was great fun

I don't like guns at all but not sure there's anything in the OP that refers to there being unrestricted access to the gun

Well said. At one point (don't know about now) the area I live in had the highest number of licensed guns per population for the UK. Yet we have pretty much zero gun crime. It is areas with high numbers of unlicensed guns you need to worry about.