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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be expecting more from the police than this?

239 replies

Whatshouldhappenhere · 09/01/2023 09:02

I did start a thread over in chat a few days ago and received some helpful responses but I’m just looking for some general advice about the police/legal system in general and hoping someone can help. Also wondering whether I’m expecting too much.

Background is: 12 yo DS was attacked on his way home from school last week by a boy he recognised from school but had never interacted with before and didn’t even know his name. DS overtook three boys from his year at school, one boy pulled his airpod from his ear as he walked past so DS snatched it back, shouted at them and ran away. After a short while, DS realised they weren’t chasing so stopped running but this boy then decided to start chasing, caught up with DS and punched him 4-5 times in the face. A woman who lived on the street intervened so the boy stopped and ran away (who knows how long the attack would have gone on for had she not intervened).

My first port of call was the school as soon as I found out, they said the student liaison officer would phone me back. Then I called 101 who took all of the details, gave me a crime number and said an officer would visit to take a statement. The SLO found out the boy who attacked DS was expelled before Christmas so the school had no jurisdiction and couldn’t act. He found the other two boys and had a chat with them but that’s the end of school involvement. The assistant head spoke to me on the phone last Thursday and promised he would have a chat with DS on Friday morning but never did. I believe this was simply damage control more than anything, he was acting like my best friend throughout the chat but didn’t follow through with the promise to chat to DS so I’m fairly disappointed although I do understand why the school can do very little else.

A police officer visited on Saturday. I thought he would sit and take a lengthy statement and be here a while but he was here for 5 minutes. He simply asked DS what happened and told me he would go talk to the boy and his parents now. I asked why it wouldn’t be taken any further and he said they don’t like putting children through the legal system over what was probably a heat of the moment thing. He said he’s sure I wouldn’t want DS’s life potentially ruined if he did something like this so I said DS wouldn’t do something like this though whereas this boy has and he’s already been expelled from school.

Basically police stance was they don’t like to charge children because it can affect their lives forever so deal with it. I contacted 101 later that day after mulling over it to ask to speak to the officer or someone else about it because I’m disappointed in the outcome. They said the officer would call me straight back but I’m still awaiting that call. Contacted 101 again yesterday to chase the call back and they said someone would call me but they’re unable to offer a timescale so I’m not hopeful anyone will.

Where do I go from here, if anywhere? Have the police done enough? Is a chat with the boy sufficient and I’m being horrible expecting anything beyond this? It’s just the fact it was a totally unprovoked attack and my DS is a really good boy, his only mistake was walking past the wrong person at the wrong time.

OP posts:
Gigglechop · 09/01/2023 16:25

But the bruising actually on his face has all but gone?

Bepis · 09/01/2023 16:26

Felix125 · 09/01/2023 16:24

CockSpadget

not sure where you have got that from, but CPS will never charge a scratch as a ABH. You will need medical evidence in any case and i assume the victim did not go to hospital

They may not charge it but they could if they wanted to as that is the definition within the law. It's the CPS picking a choosing what they want to prosecute.

Felix125 · 09/01/2023 16:27

This ABH argument is crime recording standards as apposed to charging standards.

If its bruising to his face - the charge would be common assault

CockSpadget · 09/01/2023 16:28

@Felix125 i got it from a legal website. I suggest you do some research, common assault doesn’t even have to include contact, and ABH can be even minor injuries that don’t require hospital treatment.

CockSpadget · 09/01/2023 16:29

Felix125 · 09/01/2023 16:27

This ABH argument is crime recording standards as apposed to charging standards.

If its bruising to his face - the charge would be common assault

Wrong again.

Bepis · 09/01/2023 16:29

CockSpadget · 09/01/2023 16:28

@Felix125 i got it from a legal website. I suggest you do some research, common assault doesn’t even have to include contact, and ABH can be even minor injuries that don’t require hospital treatment.

Correct as defined in my criminal law textbook.

Whatshouldhappenhere · 09/01/2023 16:29

Gigglechop · 09/01/2023 16:24

I’d be very very surprised if the the boys who witnessed it didn’t record it on their phones

Same tbh.

OP posts:
Whatshouldhappenhere · 09/01/2023 16:30

Gigglechop · 09/01/2023 16:25

But the bruising actually on his face has all but gone?

Yes.

OP posts:
Felix125 · 09/01/2023 16:31

CockSpadget
Yes I know common assault doesn't need to make contact - the threat part is enough for assault. That's why its classed as assault & battery if contact is made.

But there is no way on earth that CPS would charge a scratch or minor bruise as ABH

I think you may be looking at criming standards as apposed to charging standards.

CockSpadget · 09/01/2023 16:31

@Felix125

To be expecting more from the police than this?
Face2facet · 09/01/2023 16:32

I think if the kids involved has to pick up litter for one hour a week for 8 weeks it might make him think twice about punching someone next time.

limoncelloo · 09/01/2023 16:32

@Whatshouldhappenhere I noted you said further down somewhere that you would maybe have liked for the boy to do some sort of programme etc so he could understand his actions.

Unfortunately police can't impose something like this on anyone unless it's as part of a conditional caution, for which they need to admit the offence.

For example, let's say, the police decide to bring the boy in for a voluntary interview regarding what's happened (he can say no as it's voluntary, but he says yes). He has a duty solicitor. The neighbour has given a witness statement where she describes the incident and describes the boy in question. Your son has also given a statement and describes the boy in question. The hearsay from school doesn't count so this wouldn't be presented as any evidence but police have these two statements.

Any good solicitor will tell the boy to "no comment" or say it wasn't him. Even if the statements describe him, there is no video of the incident to confirm this. He could say it might be someone that looked like him, or say nothing at all. The solicitor will advise him to say nothing, as he knows regardless CPS won't touch the case for a youth anyway if he's not a prolific offender.

Hence we have the same result. We can't have a conditional caution or impose any conditions for him to do a programme on his behaviour as he hasn't admitted guilt.

I'm just trying to help you understand the system.

Felix125 · 09/01/2023 16:33

Face2facet ·
I think if the kids involved has to pick up litter for one hour a week for 8 weeks it might make him think twice about punching someone next time.

great - an who enforces that?

And what happens if they don't comply to it?

limoncelloo · 09/01/2023 16:33

Face2facet · 09/01/2023 16:32

I think if the kids involved has to pick up litter for one hour a week for 8 weeks it might make him think twice about punching someone next time.

Police also can't make anyone pick up litter.

Felix125 · 09/01/2023 16:34

CockSpadget

might be in the law books - but CPS wouldn't charge a scratch or minor bruise as ABH. Trust me - I have done it for 20+ years

Caterpillar1990 · 09/01/2023 16:34

No, they haven’t done enough. I’m so sorry your son has had to go through this. I also wouldn’t care whether that horrible little shit got a criminal record. A crime has been committed against your son and you want it investigated and to proceed with prosecution. I feel exactly the same way.

Can you seek advice from a solicitor?

Gigglechop · 09/01/2023 16:34

What does your son want to happen OP?

Thereisnolight · 09/01/2023 16:35

Whatshouldhappenhere · 09/01/2023 16:23

May surprise you to hear this but my DS didn’t think to retrieve his phone from his pocket, bring the camera up and start recording because he is 12 and also a regular human being who was being punched in the face at the time.

I’m grateful the woman saved my son from any further harm personally, I don’t know many people who would resent someone for doing this. Your outlook is odd.

I was being sarcastic.

CockSpadget · 09/01/2023 16:35

@Felix125 yes, you definitely need to do some research. Assault and battery isn’t even a charge in the U.K.
there is 3 charges
common assault
ABH
GBH

BananaSpanner · 09/01/2023 16:36

CockSpadget · 09/01/2023 16:29

Wrong again.

They’re not wrong. There is a difference between criming and charging standards.

OP, call 101 and ask to speak to the duty Inspector. Make a complaint if you’re not happy.

Thereisnolight · 09/01/2023 16:37

Felix125 · 09/01/2023 16:25

Thereisnolight
OP probably wants the perpetrator to receive a penalty that makes him think twice about doing this again. She’s being highly unreasonable I know

Such as......?

Restorative justice - clearing litter, first aid courses, a record until he is 18 which will mean escalating penalties if he reoffends.

Felix125 · 09/01/2023 16:39

CockSpadget
The charge for common assault (if contact is made) includes the line 'be beating them'

So its assault without violence or assault & battery. There are 2 elements to it

Its like GBH will have 2 elements also - S18 or S20 wounding

Felix125 · 09/01/2023 16:40

Thereisnolight · 09/01/2023 16:37

Restorative justice - clearing litter, first aid courses, a record until he is 18 which will mean escalating penalties if he reoffends.

And who enforces that then?
And what if they don't comply?

Thereisnolight · 09/01/2023 16:41

All these posters pointing out minutiae of the law and pointing out what the police CAN’T do.

What CAN they do? And if the answer is: nothing, what SHOULD change? Why do they hide behind a faulty system?

Face2facet · 09/01/2023 16:41

limoncelloo · 09/01/2023 16:33

Police also can't make anyone pick up litter.

I’m saying in an ideal world that this is the sort of punishment I would like to see for this sort of crime. And until we start actually punishing these crimes they are going to continue.

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