To be expecting more from the police than this?

[Whatshouldhappenhere]

I did start a thread over in chat a few days ago and received some helpful responses but I’m just looking for some general advice about the police/legal system in general and hoping someone can help. Also wondering whether I’m expecting too much.

Background is: 12 yo DS was attacked on his way home from school last week by a boy he recognised from school but had never interacted with before and didn’t even know his name. DS overtook three boys from his year at school, one boy pulled his airpod from his ear as he walked past so DS snatched it back, shouted at them and ran away. After a short while, DS realised they weren’t chasing so stopped running but this boy then decided to start chasing, caught up with DS and punched him 4-5 times in the face. A woman who lived on the street intervened so the boy stopped and ran away (who knows how long the attack would have gone on for had she not intervened).

My first port of call was the school as soon as I found out, they said the student liaison officer would phone me back. Then I called 101 who took all of the details, gave me a crime number and said an officer would visit to take a statement. The SLO found out the boy who attacked DS was expelled before Christmas so the school had no jurisdiction and couldn’t act. He found the other two boys and had a chat with them but that’s the end of school involvement. The assistant head spoke to me on the phone last Thursday and promised he would have a chat with DS on Friday morning but never did. I believe this was simply damage control more than anything, he was acting like my best friend throughout the chat but didn’t follow through with the promise to chat to DS so I’m fairly disappointed although I do understand why the school can do very little else.

A police officer visited on Saturday. I thought he would sit and take a lengthy statement and be here a while but he was here for 5 minutes. He simply asked DS what happened and told me he would go talk to the boy and his parents now. I asked why it wouldn’t be taken any further and he said they don’t like putting children through the legal system over what was probably a heat of the moment thing. He said he’s sure I wouldn’t want DS’s life potentially ruined if he did something like this so I said DS wouldn’t do something like this though whereas this boy has and he’s already been expelled from school.

Basically police stance was they don’t like to charge children because it can affect their lives forever so deal with it. I contacted 101 later that day after mulling over it to ask to speak to the officer or someone else about it because I’m disappointed in the outcome. They said the officer would call me straight back but I’m still awaiting that call. Contacted 101 again yesterday to chase the call back and they said someone would call me but they’re unable to offer a timescale so I’m not hopeful anyone will.

Where do I go from here, if anywhere? Have the police done enough? Is a chat with the boy sufficient and I’m being horrible expecting anything beyond this? It’s just the fact it was a totally unprovoked attack and my DS is a really good boy, his only mistake was walking past the wrong person at the wrong time.

Yes, adults assaulting children is a really good look.

Yes the ideal would be various sorts of interventions, but that doesn’t seem to be happening. If the choice was between criminalising and doing nothing, criminalising would be preferable because at least then they might have second thoughts about beating an innocent up again, and the innicest would see some for on justice.

You have totally misread what I meant.

As I said before on this thread I do not condone violence and do condone police punishment and would hound the bloody police to get the bullies charged.

12/13. He was in the same year as DS but DS didn’t know his name and had never interacted with him before this, just recognised him from around school. No classes together or anything, literally no reason for the boy to target DS whatsoever. Just a random attack because DS happened to be walking past him on the way home. I think that’s what has got to me above all else. I could accept it more if they had some sort of ongoing issue with one another and DS provoked him in some way but DS is a really great kid who doesn’t get involved with drama of any sort.

I had no idea the police only legally have to investigate rape and murder, that’s obscene.

@Whatshouldhappenhere my DS is a few years older than your DS but he was assaulted by a group of boys in school just before Christmas and we’ve had a much better response from the police than you have.

School reported it directly to the police and we had a call from the police straight after they’d received the report. The incident was deemed high priority and we were told an officer would be with us within an hour. DS told the officer what had happened informally and we were told we had two options. If we wanted to prosecute than DS would give a formal statement and each of the boys would be questioned with legal representation. Alternatively, if DS didn’t want to prosecute, an officer would go to each of their homes and speak to them and it would stay on their record.

We were given an incident number and a phone number / contact. The police then contacted us a few days later to see if we’d made a decision but as we had a meeting at school the following day, we wanted to see what the school’s punishment was (obviously that’s not relevant to your situation). At no point did any of the officers try to influence us one way or the other, they just gave us the facts. We were then called again on Boxing Day where we said we weren’t prosecuting (in our case because school were taking it so seriously). The officer confirmed that she would visit the boys after the holidays and would update us when it happened. We also had a call from Children’s Services who would have supported us if we’d needed it.

From what we’ve experienced, you should have had more support from the police and given there were 3 witnesses, you should have had the same 2 options as us.

@AhoyMaBuoy, a quick Google will show you the subject has been extensively researched over many years. What we were doing before didn't work, hence why things have changed.

@Face2facet you say criminalising is better than doing nothing, but no one here knows that nothing is being done.
If the child is a prolific offender and there is evidence to this incident there is no way the crime report could be written off by an officer as "words of advice/chat". Crime reports that are filed with no further action have to be done so by a supervisor, so they would review this. If he isn't a prolific offender then words of advice is proportionate.

It's a sad state of affairs that it's got to this. My kids have witnessed things growing up, with me asking the police for help with little success. My own children have no faith in the police and they have even said to me that they wouldn't be protected if something happened.

Someone mentioned about the police siding with the criminal and I have personally experienced that. My old neighbours came round to our house drunk and annoyed because we had asked them to keep their music down through the night. Female neighbour grabs me, so I punched her. No injury, it was more a warning to get off me as she had laid her hands on me first and I thought she was going to hit me. Anyway, despite explaining what happened, and having it on audio, the police said I was the aggressor and I was the one who assaulted her. You can't win 🤷🏻‍♀️

@limoncelloo Do you really think it works now?

It's not working though is it @limoncelloo this could have been research from years ago , times change
Assault should never be ignored

Amazing response, I hope your DS is doing ok and sorry it happened to him too. I don’t know whether the response was better because your local police are better or because your DS is older but this is the sort of thing I would have liked to happen.

Instead we have had a phone call from the assistant headteacher who seemed nice enough but promised to speak to DS the following day and never did. An SLO who had a 10 second conversation with DS the day after the attack where he said the school couldn’t do anything because the boy had been expelled. I had to chase the SLO myself to find out why the other two boys weren’t at least located and spoken to and also whether they could inform the boy’s new school because he seemed to think this response was adequate. Then a police officer who spoke to us for five minutes, barely asked for any details and said he would go have a chat with the boy because he didn’t want him to end up in the legal system. Not great, I’m just disappointed to say the least.

Whatshouldhappenhere
I had no idea the police only legally have to investigate rape and murder, that’s obscene.

That's not the case at all. All crimes have to be recorded and an outcome reached. This may be a charge, summons, insufficient evidence to proceed, evidential difficulty etc etc. There is a closure code for not being in the public interest to pursue - but the police have to justify this irresolution.

What would you son like as the outcome to this - what was he expecting to happen from the police?

There would be no point in obtaining a statement from him if its not being persued to court.

If the investigation is still open & ongoing it sounds like they are still waiting to speak to the other parties involved.

Bepis
The problem is - there are always two sides to the story. She may have had an injury from the punch and a witness to back her up. And they will give a different version of events. What can the police do in this scenario?

Sorry, I was just replying to someone upthread who said this was the case.

My DS is only 12 years old so he doesn’t know what he expected or wanted from the police. We both expected more than a 5 minute visit from an officer and I think I expected more than a little chat with the boy. No idea what, I just don’t think this boy will care very much about a police visit. I don’t think he deserves to be in prison or anything like that for it but I think there needs to be some sort of consequence beyond the police giving him a little telling off.

If my DC step out of line, they know there are consequences and have been taught this from a very young age. This boy is clearly being taught there are very minor consequences if he does very bad things. I don’t think assault is a minor crime personally so is deserving of something more than a quick telling off.

What consequences would you consider to be taken against him?

@AhoyMaBuoy it's not research from many years ago. It has been extensively researched over many years, hence why this approach is adopted by police/CPS.

@Bepis do I think it works? Not in all cases, does anything? But the research, evidence and the better long term outcomes say that it is better than how things used to be.

@Felix125 I would expect the police to not automatically side with the aggressor. We had audio evidence which clearly showed via sound who came for who first (could tell by what people were saying). Police didn't even want to listen to the evidence, just wanted to blame me, even though it was the neighbours who came round to our house being aggressive. She was incredibly nasty as well with how she spoke to me. My gut feeling was she probably knew the neighbour in question and was looking out for her.

Anyway, sorry I digress OP.

@Bepis, audio evidence is rarely accepted by CPS I'm afraid, that isn't down to the police. If it is used it will be used in conjunction with other evidence/witness testimony etc.

@limoncelloo Do you not think that the increase in antisocial behaviour demonstrates otherwise though? Kids genuinely feel they can do whatever they like to people and their houses because they know nothing will happen to them majority of the time.

I had a teenager kick my door so hard that the house shook but because there was no damage, it apparently wasn't a criminal offence.

Interesting, I didn't know that. Do you know the reason?

Bepis
I don't doubt that this was the case and i believe what you are saying.

But if the other person complains that they have been assaulted and perhaps has an eye witness to the assault - then it doesn't matter what the police believe, its what they can prove.

Yes - they should have listened to the recording though.

@bepis, what do you think should happen then to a teenager who has kicked the front door of your house? It can't be recorded as criminal damage as there was none. It should have been recorded as an ASB non-crime though.

Its because you can't prove who the voice belongs to.
CCTV is different as you can ID the people from it - but not from the voice alone

Sorry OP, I feel quite passionate about this subject as you can tell but I don't mean to hijack the thread 🤐

I’m not saying it’s right but surely this whole situation isn’t a great surprise?

Young lads get in to scraps when they’re in this age. Police can’t be involved on them all and especially not beyond a brief talking to

Interesting they didn’t seem interested in your evidence, this is how it felt for me too. Showed him the pics of DS’s face and told him about the woman who intervened but he didn’t even ask for her address. He seemed disinterested in the whole thing tbh, more interested in protecting the other boy’s future (at least that’s how it came across). Unfairly attempted to get me to sympathise with the boy who punched my son multiple times which wasn’t happening, I don’t feel any sympathy. No doubt he has a shit life but so did I as a child, I didn’t go around attacking unsuspecting people.