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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be expecting more from the police than this?

239 replies

Whatshouldhappenhere · 09/01/2023 09:02

I did start a thread over in chat a few days ago and received some helpful responses but I’m just looking for some general advice about the police/legal system in general and hoping someone can help. Also wondering whether I’m expecting too much.

Background is: 12 yo DS was attacked on his way home from school last week by a boy he recognised from school but had never interacted with before and didn’t even know his name. DS overtook three boys from his year at school, one boy pulled his airpod from his ear as he walked past so DS snatched it back, shouted at them and ran away. After a short while, DS realised they weren’t chasing so stopped running but this boy then decided to start chasing, caught up with DS and punched him 4-5 times in the face. A woman who lived on the street intervened so the boy stopped and ran away (who knows how long the attack would have gone on for had she not intervened).

My first port of call was the school as soon as I found out, they said the student liaison officer would phone me back. Then I called 101 who took all of the details, gave me a crime number and said an officer would visit to take a statement. The SLO found out the boy who attacked DS was expelled before Christmas so the school had no jurisdiction and couldn’t act. He found the other two boys and had a chat with them but that’s the end of school involvement. The assistant head spoke to me on the phone last Thursday and promised he would have a chat with DS on Friday morning but never did. I believe this was simply damage control more than anything, he was acting like my best friend throughout the chat but didn’t follow through with the promise to chat to DS so I’m fairly disappointed although I do understand why the school can do very little else.

A police officer visited on Saturday. I thought he would sit and take a lengthy statement and be here a while but he was here for 5 minutes. He simply asked DS what happened and told me he would go talk to the boy and his parents now. I asked why it wouldn’t be taken any further and he said they don’t like putting children through the legal system over what was probably a heat of the moment thing. He said he’s sure I wouldn’t want DS’s life potentially ruined if he did something like this so I said DS wouldn’t do something like this though whereas this boy has and he’s already been expelled from school.

Basically police stance was they don’t like to charge children because it can affect their lives forever so deal with it. I contacted 101 later that day after mulling over it to ask to speak to the officer or someone else about it because I’m disappointed in the outcome. They said the officer would call me straight back but I’m still awaiting that call. Contacted 101 again yesterday to chase the call back and they said someone would call me but they’re unable to offer a timescale so I’m not hopeful anyone will.

Where do I go from here, if anywhere? Have the police done enough? Is a chat with the boy sufficient and I’m being horrible expecting anything beyond this? It’s just the fact it was a totally unprovoked attack and my DS is a really good boy, his only mistake was walking past the wrong person at the wrong time.

OP posts:
Thereisnolight · 09/01/2023 15:59

Felix125 · 09/01/2023 09:16

What would you and your son want as the outcome?

I'm not trying to minimise the incident, but I assume your son wasn't seriously;y hurt in the attack - ie he didn't need a stay in hospital or stitches/surgery?

The offences therefore would be a common assault so is unlikely to receive a jail term for it. He can't be fined as he will have no means to pay it and he can't be given any kind of unpaid work to do, due to his age.

The only outcome would be some sort of restorative justice outside the court process - hence there would be no need to obtain a statement - as its not going to court.

Keep asking for the update from the officer or their supervision - it should have been crimed and updates put on the crime report which anyone can review and update you with.

Then there should be more options, shouldn’t there?
Rather than a shrug and a boys will be boys.

Whatshouldhappenhere · 09/01/2023 15:59

Gigglechop · 09/01/2023 15:55

So all on hearsay?
So you went to the school and said “my son was attacked by three boys and his classmates tell him that it’s XYZ”

correct?

even though on your other thread you say that DS wasn’t even aware of the 2 other boys at any point

No. I contacted the school as soon as it happened and said my DS has been attacked by three boys in his year and he doesn’t know who any of them are. The following day, as I say, DS was surrounded and told who the perpetrator was. The SLO did his own digging and found the other two, nothing to do with me. DS could correctly identify the attacker if he saw a photo so we did find a photo online and DS confirmed it was him.

OP posts:
limoncelloo · 09/01/2023 16:00

@CockSpadget dealt with properly? In what way?

I have spent a lot of time on this thread trying to explain to OP and others that there are only so many courses of action police can take. From the information I have it sounds like it has been dealt with appropriately, proportionately and within police powers.

Felix125 · 09/01/2023 16:01

Thereisnolight
Then there should be more options, shouldn’t there?
Rather than a shrug and a boys will be boys.

What would you like to see

Whatshouldhappenhere · 09/01/2023 16:03

Maybe the boy could be placed in some sort of programme to help him understand why assaulting people just isn’t the correct thing to do. Not sure but I don’t think he will be bothered about a chat with a police officer, that’s my main point. I know my DC would be terrified if the police told them off for any reason but this boy was expelled from school and then went onto do this so I just don’t think he’ll be arsed.

OP posts:
Gigglechop · 09/01/2023 16:03

Whatshouldhappenhere · 09/01/2023 15:59

No. I contacted the school as soon as it happened and said my DS has been attacked by three boys in his year and he doesn’t know who any of them are. The following day, as I say, DS was surrounded and told who the perpetrator was. The SLO did his own digging and found the other two, nothing to do with me. DS could correctly identify the attacker if he saw a photo so we did find a photo online and DS confirmed it was him.

But you say on your other thread that you DS was completely unaware that there two other boys present when he was attacked!

nothingmuchaboutjerry · 09/01/2023 16:03

Totally different experience to you so it makes me wonder whether the decision to prosecute comes down to how bad things are. In my daughters case, it was BAD. The police met us at the hospital after she was taken unconscious by ambulance. Those who attacked her were kept in the cells for 7 hours whilst the police trawled mobile and CCTV footage, and waited until my daughter was well enough to make a statement. Both girls were advised that had they been 3 years older (both 13), they would have been remanded for what they had done. And this week we are in Youth Court where we've been advised it's likely to be committed to the crown. For the girls who attacked my daughter, it's their first offences. And, my daughter suffered no long-lasting injuries (although they were horrific at the time), but her mental scars are fully evident in her victim impact statement. But, even though it might be going to trial, we've still been advised that any potential sentence is likely to be lenient because they don't want to criminalise children. So at best we can hope for is a 12 month referral and supervision order, and if they remain "good" during that time, their criminal record will be wiped.

In short therefore OP, is all the drama and emotional strain of a conviction for a very minimal sentence worth it? We've had no choice in the matter, the CPS have chosen to take this to court, but it's gone on 5 months now and certainly my daughter just wants it all over with so she can move on with her life.

CockSpadget · 09/01/2023 16:04

limoncelloo · 09/01/2023 16:00

@CockSpadget dealt with properly? In what way?

I have spent a lot of time on this thread trying to explain to OP and others that there are only so many courses of action police can take. From the information I have it sounds like it has been dealt with appropriately, proportionately and within police powers.

With the perpetrator being charged with ABH, which is well within the police’s remit to do!

Felix125 · 09/01/2023 16:04

Whatshouldhappenhere
Its still going to be heresay - unless the SLO can state that they have spoken to a direct witness who can ID the suspect.

If its just names being mentioned by pupils at school who weren't actually there - its hearsay

Not saying that the names mentioned can't be visited by police - its just if they deny anything it will make any ID for court purposes tricky.

CockSpadget · 09/01/2023 16:05

There might well be limited options, but charging him with the actual crime he committed is still one of those options.

Felix125 · 09/01/2023 16:05

CockSpadget
Its not ABH though

Gigglechop · 09/01/2023 16:05

She invited us in and told us she witnessed the attack and said the other two boys were there too (this is with no prompt from DS that any other boys were involved). DS didn’t see the other two boys so wasn’t aware they were nearby.

on what grounds would the other boys be disciplined? Your DS wasn’t even aware of their presence

Whatshouldhappenhere · 09/01/2023 16:05

Gigglechop · 09/01/2023 16:03

But you say on your other thread that you DS was completely unaware that there two other boys present when he was attacked!

I’m not really sure what your point is here. My DS was unaware the other two were present during the attack, I’d guess because he was in the middle of being punched in the face. The boys spread it around school so either they watched it or just heard from the boy afterwards. The woman who witnessed it said three boys were there though so guessing the other two were watching and DS didn’t see them.

OP posts:
Daysoffarethebest · 09/01/2023 16:06

Re no reply from the officer who saw you-your call will have gone through a switchboard who probably don’t check when he is back at work but will send him an e-mail asking him to ring you back.
Depending on shift patterns and possible leave, this could be a while, if you are not told then you will be disappointed at hearing nothing as it seems you are being ignored.

Felix125 · 09/01/2023 16:07

CockSpadget · Today 16:05
There might well be limited options, but charging him with the actual crime he committed is still one of those options.

You can only do this if the IP is willing to attend court. It also has to get passed the evidential threshold tests before hand - especially if the suspects deny anything happened or blame the IP.

Face2facet · 09/01/2023 16:07

Felix125 · 09/01/2023 16:05

CockSpadget
Its not ABH though

What would the charge be if a stranger punched an adult 4-5 times in the face? I’d want a 10 year old charged with that please. If they are over the age of criminal responsibility they ought to get all that can be thrown at them. No messing around.

Gigglechop · 09/01/2023 16:08

I can’t really see why he would have to admit guilt when there’s three solid witnesses outside of DS. The other two boys from school witnessed it,

and you honestly see them piping up to support your DS’ version?

CockSpadget · 09/01/2023 16:08

Felix125 · 09/01/2023 16:05

CockSpadget
Its not ABH though

Of course it bloody is! OPs son was “actually bodily harmed”

Whatshouldhappenhere · 09/01/2023 16:08

Gigglechop · 09/01/2023 16:05

She invited us in and told us she witnessed the attack and said the other two boys were there too (this is with no prompt from DS that any other boys were involved). DS didn’t see the other two boys so wasn’t aware they were nearby.

on what grounds would the other boys be disciplined? Your DS wasn’t even aware of their presence

I’ve barely mentioned the other two boys in this thread because I have spoken to the school since and realise that short of potentially watching it and then spreading it around school, they didn’t attack DS so I don’t expect them to be punished. The school spoke to them and that’s the end of their involvement.

OP posts:
limoncelloo · 09/01/2023 16:08

@CockSpadget police don't make charging decisions, CPS do. Police simply gather and present evidence.

A police officer wouldn't get this past their supervision to even present to CPS, and if they did CPS would tell them to bugger off.

If this child was a prolific offender, no doubt more would be happening. The officer dealing would not be able to close the crime report of a prolific youth offender who goes around making unprovoked attacks on other people with "words of advice".

Gigglechop · 09/01/2023 16:09

Whatshouldhappenhere · 09/01/2023 16:08

I’ve barely mentioned the other two boys in this thread because I have spoken to the school since and realise that short of potentially watching it and then spreading it around school, they didn’t attack DS so I don’t expect them to be punished. The school spoke to them and that’s the end of their involvement.

And you need to stop seeing them as “solid witnesses”!

Whatshouldhappenhere · 09/01/2023 16:09

Gigglechop · 09/01/2023 16:08

I can’t really see why he would have to admit guilt when there’s three solid witnesses outside of DS. The other two boys from school witnessed it,

and you honestly see them piping up to support your DS’ version?

They already have done. They told the SLO it happened and that x was the perpetrator, they have backed DS up in that sense as has the woman who witnessed. No one is denying what happened to DS, including the other two boys. I’m not really sure what your point is, that DS is lying in some way? He isn’t.

OP posts:
Gigglechop · 09/01/2023 16:10

I afraid Op there is nothing substantial here unless the woman who witnessed is happy to confirm that this boy did it.

were any photos taken of the bruising? Sorry if missed

Felix125 · 09/01/2023 16:11

Face2facet
For ABH, there has to be a significant injury - usually requiring hospital treatment. Otherwise its a common assault.

A charge for ABH has to go through CPS first which will require the IP's willingness to attend court.

Its fine that you would go to court, but the victim in this case might not want to. therefore we can not charge the suspect with anything.

Whatshouldhappenhere · 09/01/2023 16:11

Gigglechop · 09/01/2023 16:10

I afraid Op there is nothing substantial here unless the woman who witnessed is happy to confirm that this boy did it.

were any photos taken of the bruising? Sorry if missed

Yes, I visited the woman the following day to thank her for helping my DS and she said she was more than happy to speak to the police about it. The other two boys have confirmed it was this boy, no denial on their part. And yes, I showed the police officer the photos of DS’s face.

OP posts:
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