To be expecting more from the police than this?

[Whatshouldhappenhere]

I did start a thread over in chat a few days ago and received some helpful responses but I’m just looking for some general advice about the police/legal system in general and hoping someone can help. Also wondering whether I’m expecting too much.

Background is: 12 yo DS was attacked on his way home from school last week by a boy he recognised from school but had never interacted with before and didn’t even know his name. DS overtook three boys from his year at school, one boy pulled his airpod from his ear as he walked past so DS snatched it back, shouted at them and ran away. After a short while, DS realised they weren’t chasing so stopped running but this boy then decided to start chasing, caught up with DS and punched him 4-5 times in the face. A woman who lived on the street intervened so the boy stopped and ran away (who knows how long the attack would have gone on for had she not intervened).

My first port of call was the school as soon as I found out, they said the student liaison officer would phone me back. Then I called 101 who took all of the details, gave me a crime number and said an officer would visit to take a statement. The SLO found out the boy who attacked DS was expelled before Christmas so the school had no jurisdiction and couldn’t act. He found the other two boys and had a chat with them but that’s the end of school involvement. The assistant head spoke to me on the phone last Thursday and promised he would have a chat with DS on Friday morning but never did. I believe this was simply damage control more than anything, he was acting like my best friend throughout the chat but didn’t follow through with the promise to chat to DS so I’m fairly disappointed although I do understand why the school can do very little else.

A police officer visited on Saturday. I thought he would sit and take a lengthy statement and be here a while but he was here for 5 minutes. He simply asked DS what happened and told me he would go talk to the boy and his parents now. I asked why it wouldn’t be taken any further and he said they don’t like putting children through the legal system over what was probably a heat of the moment thing. He said he’s sure I wouldn’t want DS’s life potentially ruined if he did something like this so I said DS wouldn’t do something like this though whereas this boy has and he’s already been expelled from school.

Basically police stance was they don’t like to charge children because it can affect their lives forever so deal with it. I contacted 101 later that day after mulling over it to ask to speak to the officer or someone else about it because I’m disappointed in the outcome. They said the officer would call me straight back but I’m still awaiting that call. Contacted 101 again yesterday to chase the call back and they said someone would call me but they’re unable to offer a timescale so I’m not hopeful anyone will.

Where do I go from here, if anywhere? Have the police done enough? Is a chat with the boy sufficient and I’m being horrible expecting anything beyond this? It’s just the fact it was a totally unprovoked attack and my DS is a really good boy, his only mistake was walking past the wrong person at the wrong time.

That’s the whole point of the thread though, the police aren’t even attempting to gather evidence. A child has been assaulted, it is their job to investigate, then present the case to the CPS, but because our country is going to shit, children being repeatedly punched in the face just gets brushed under the carpet. It’s ridiculous.

Ok so you didn’t say that in your op

He found the other two boys and had a chat with them but that’s the end of school involvement.

a “chat with them” doesn’t indicate they fully confirmed and disclosed information about the incident

It might have been dealt with within police powers but then those powers are grossly inadequate.

Incorrect, you are describing GBH. ABH can be anything from scratches and bruises.

CockSpadget
You can only present it to CPS if the victim is willing to attend court over it - especially if its a common assault.

the witnesses are happy to speak to police, but are they willing to attend court?

the police are investigating it - the crime inquiry is still ongoing

I have to agree with @Felix125 here. To take something to court, you need solid evidence which will prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt. The court would just throw it out if the only evidence was the suspect being identified via rumours through school (which are most likely true but courts need more than that). So frustrating for you though ☹️

@Felix125 its not common assault, it’s ABH. With common assault there doesn’t even have to be an injury.

I don’t know but this argument seems largely irrelevant given the fact it won’t be going to court because the police have left it at a chat with the boy. Same for the back and forth with @Gigglechop about the other two boys. Irrelevant because they are witnesses and have confirmed it was x boy but it won’t be going to court anyway so doesn’t really matter.

CockSpadget
Incorrect, you are describing GBH. ABH can be anything from scratches and bruises.

No, its common assault. Bloodied noses, black eyes, are common assault.

ABH is more significant - deep cuts, stitches, significant bruising or multiple injuries

GBH is broken bones, significant lacerations., internal injuries

For CPS to charge with ABH & GBH you need medical statements for the injury

DS has confirmed it was him after seeing a photo as well though which is surely what would happen if a total stranger attacked you, the police might show a series of photos and you would identify the culprit as a result? It doesn’t really matter anyway because the police have chosen not to go further with it.

ACTUAL BODILY HARM
ABH is assault or battery that causes harm to a person’s body. The harm does not need to be serious to be classed as ABH, however, it does need to be more significant than a push or shove. Harm that consists of bruises, scratches or bite marks would be sufficient enough to be classed as ABH, but the most important factor when convicting an individual of actual bodily harm is that the offender only needs to intend to apply unlawful force, not intending to cause injury. So if a push results in someone hitting their head against a wall, it is more likely to be ABH than GBH or common assault because the intention was to use unlawful force, rather than causing a head injury. ABH can be tried in either the magistrates’ court or the crown court and carries a maximum sentence of 5 years imprisonment.

Whatshouldhappenhere

It depends what you are wanting as the outcome?

OP your son should have videoed the incident (he should have known in advance it was going to happen). Otherwise he has no proof it happened.

Next, that woman should not have intervened. Thanks to her do-gooding busybodiness your son was not seriously injured, which is unfortunate as the incident now cannot be taken seriously. The other boy has every right to hit whomever he pleases as long as they don’t suffer life-long injuries or die. (Even then, see above re video).

This is police policy - what else did you expect them to do? Anyway boys will be boys.

@CockSpadget I'm not saying the country isn't going to shit, quite agree there.

But as I've stated numerous times, police/CPS rarely criminalise children except in case of very serious, ongoing behaviour. The threshold is very high.

Therefore gathering evidence for a one-off incident which by all accounts this is as far as we know, is not a good use of police time and resources, when the officer knows their supervisor will say "no" and CPS will say "no".

In fact if officers spend time doing such a detailed investigation into an incident which they already know due to force police and procedures will not progress, their supervision would not be happy.

The officer will have looked at the incident before coming to OPs for "5 minutes". They will have looked at the history of the suspect if they have any, and made a decision as to the correct and proportionate response.

Let me ask anyone here- would you be happy if you were involved in an immediate and life threatening incident, whether that be you have been attacked and the attacker is nearby or in your house, you are in a serious car accident (police usually attend quicker than any other emergency service), or you have phoned because you have seen a teenager girl hanging off an overpass and it looks to you like she might be contemplating jumping off, your young child is having a cardiac arrest (again, often police can be the first responders to something like this). Would you be happy to be told no officers are coming as they are all tied up investigating matters which they already know won't be accepted by CPS or make it to court?

The policies that police officers follow are there for a reason. There is an issue with lack of resource too as there is in all frontline.

What had happened to the OPs son is scary and unprovoked, I have children myself and I would be extremely upset. But the police HAVE taken what action they can. The only suggestion I had for OP was to enquire about a community resolution.

OP probably wants the perpetrator to receive a penalty that makes him think twice about doing this again. She’s being highly unreasonable I know

Whatshouldhappenhere

To ID a suspect, it has to be done via an ID parade - not just looking at someone on social media and identifying them

This, I totally agree. BUT wouldn’t expect the police to do anything about it. My trust/belief in the police is zero these days. So many reasons but the main ones are the lack of police support for minor crimes I’ve been victim of over the years (theft, damage to property) and obviously the institutional racism, sexism, Sarah Everard etc etc. I just wouldn’t expect anything at all, then you won’t be disappointed.

May surprise you to hear this but my DS didn’t think to retrieve his phone from his pocket, bring the camera up and start recording because he is 12 and also a regular human being who was being punched in the face at the time.

I’m grateful the woman saved my son from any further harm personally, I don’t know many people who would resent someone for doing this. Your outlook is odd.

Sorry if clarified but no photos at all? You didn’t take any photos of the bruising and it’s already gone down?

CockSpadget

not sure where you have got that from, but CPS will never charge a scratch as a ABH. You will need medical evidence in any case and i assume the victim did not go to hospital

@CockSpadget you describe it perfectly. My daughters attackers have been charged with Section 47 - otherwise known as ABH and the description you've provided is accurate to her injuries. The sentence you give though is different to what we've been told, we've been told to expect quite a poor sentence with it being their first offence. In my case everything initially was dealt with very quickly. In the OPs case the police seem to have already made a decision.

I’d be very very surprised if the the boys who witnessed it didn’t record it on their phones

I have now said twice that I got photos of his face and showed the officer the photos.

I agree with @CockSpadget definition of ABH. I studied this under criminal law for my LLB and it incorporates any injury to the body, whether that be bruising, scratches etc.

GBH is when it starts getting more serious.

You can assault someone without even touching them, if you place them in fear that immediate physical violence is going to be used on them. So someone going up shouting in someone's face with their first clenched and held up would still be an assault even if they didn't touch them.

Thereisnolight
OP probably wants the perpetrator to receive a penalty that makes him think twice about doing this again. She’s being highly unreasonable I know

Such as......?