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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be expecting more from the police than this?

239 replies

Whatshouldhappenhere · 09/01/2023 09:02

I did start a thread over in chat a few days ago and received some helpful responses but I’m just looking for some general advice about the police/legal system in general and hoping someone can help. Also wondering whether I’m expecting too much.

Background is: 12 yo DS was attacked on his way home from school last week by a boy he recognised from school but had never interacted with before and didn’t even know his name. DS overtook three boys from his year at school, one boy pulled his airpod from his ear as he walked past so DS snatched it back, shouted at them and ran away. After a short while, DS realised they weren’t chasing so stopped running but this boy then decided to start chasing, caught up with DS and punched him 4-5 times in the face. A woman who lived on the street intervened so the boy stopped and ran away (who knows how long the attack would have gone on for had she not intervened).

My first port of call was the school as soon as I found out, they said the student liaison officer would phone me back. Then I called 101 who took all of the details, gave me a crime number and said an officer would visit to take a statement. The SLO found out the boy who attacked DS was expelled before Christmas so the school had no jurisdiction and couldn’t act. He found the other two boys and had a chat with them but that’s the end of school involvement. The assistant head spoke to me on the phone last Thursday and promised he would have a chat with DS on Friday morning but never did. I believe this was simply damage control more than anything, he was acting like my best friend throughout the chat but didn’t follow through with the promise to chat to DS so I’m fairly disappointed although I do understand why the school can do very little else.

A police officer visited on Saturday. I thought he would sit and take a lengthy statement and be here a while but he was here for 5 minutes. He simply asked DS what happened and told me he would go talk to the boy and his parents now. I asked why it wouldn’t be taken any further and he said they don’t like putting children through the legal system over what was probably a heat of the moment thing. He said he’s sure I wouldn’t want DS’s life potentially ruined if he did something like this so I said DS wouldn’t do something like this though whereas this boy has and he’s already been expelled from school.

Basically police stance was they don’t like to charge children because it can affect their lives forever so deal with it. I contacted 101 later that day after mulling over it to ask to speak to the officer or someone else about it because I’m disappointed in the outcome. They said the officer would call me straight back but I’m still awaiting that call. Contacted 101 again yesterday to chase the call back and they said someone would call me but they’re unable to offer a timescale so I’m not hopeful anyone will.

Where do I go from here, if anywhere? Have the police done enough? Is a chat with the boy sufficient and I’m being horrible expecting anything beyond this? It’s just the fact it was a totally unprovoked attack and my DS is a really good boy, his only mistake was walking past the wrong person at the wrong time.

OP posts:
Coldilox · 09/01/2023 09:10

If you are unhappy with the police response, call and ask to make a complaint. In the first instance this will be dealt with by the duty inspector, who should call you and discuss the matter with you. Explain that you were not asked for your views regarding how this would be dealt with, just told it would be dealt with by way of “a chat” with the boy and his parents. The inspector should then explain what the options are.

Original poster
Whatshouldhappenhere · 09/01/2023 09:16

Do I phone 101 again to ask to complain? I can’t seem to find another number for the police other than this but as I say, I’ve called 101 twice since to chase a call back to discuss and I’m still awaiting that call so I’m not overly hopeful anyone will.

OP posts:
Felix125 · 09/01/2023 09:16

What would you and your son want as the outcome?

I'm not trying to minimise the incident, but I assume your son wasn't seriously;y hurt in the attack - ie he didn't need a stay in hospital or stitches/surgery?

The offences therefore would be a common assault so is unlikely to receive a jail term for it. He can't be fined as he will have no means to pay it and he can't be given any kind of unpaid work to do, due to his age.

The only outcome would be some sort of restorative justice outside the court process - hence there would be no need to obtain a statement - as its not going to court.

Keep asking for the update from the officer or their supervision - it should have been crimed and updates put on the crime report which anyone can review and update you with.

Tannedandfake · 09/01/2023 09:20

I read your original thread about this.
As a PP said, what outcome are you looking for?
The boy that assaulted your DS has been expelled from school and the police have been and spoken to him.

Original poster
Whatshouldhappenhere · 09/01/2023 09:20

He had some bruising to his face which thankfully died down quickly. It’s the fact the attack would have continued and DS’s injuries could have been much worse had the woman not intervened.

I’m not even sure if the officer did chat to the boy in the end, the first 101 operator said it was still an open investigation so unsure what this means. I wondered what would happen if the officer knocked and they weren’t in, for example? Would the officer go back another day and keep returning until someone answered?

I don’t want the boy to completely get away with this because I don’t want him to attack anyone else again thinking it’s ok to do this because nobody will do anything about it.

OP posts:
EndlessRain1 · 09/01/2023 09:21

Was you DS ok?

You were right to call the police, but assuming that your DS was ok and the police attended the other boy's house I think it's probably unreasonable to expect much more. It's not as talked about as the NHS etc but the legal system is under a huge amount of strain at the moment, and sadly spending time and money prosecuting this would be very unlikely. The police know this and will therefore treat it accordingly.

Original poster
Whatshouldhappenhere · 09/01/2023 09:21

Tannedandfake · 09/01/2023 09:20

I read your original thread about this.
As a PP said, what outcome are you looking for?
The boy that assaulted your DS has been expelled from school and the police have been and spoken to him.

I don’t even know whether the police have spoken to him though. As I say, what happens if they were out when the officer visited? I just don’t want the boy to get away with this because he seems the sort to keep doing this until someone actually takes action.

OP posts:
Igglepiggleslittletoe · 09/01/2023 09:34

I do not understand the attitudes on here. ANYONE lays a finger on my kids and I would want the pujnishment to be as hard as possible. This shite of 'ah your kid was ok in the end' does not wash with me. Kids like this need to be shown it is NOT ok to bully other kids. I would be livid and constantly contacting the police till something is done. I see some little chavvy kids around where I live and one of them touches my kids and I can assure you the little fuckers would not be getting away with it.

EndlessRain1 · 09/01/2023 09:36

@Igglepiggleslittletoe What do y ou think is an appropriate consequence here?

Igglepiggleslittletoe · 09/01/2023 09:38

For them kids to have it noted on record that they are violent thugs. I cannot stand violence and hate bullying and think it needs to be brought down on fairly hard the first time so they do not do it again. There needs to be consequences for stuff like this or it snowballs and they think it is acceptable and go on to be worse and more violent.

Igglepiggleslittletoe · 09/01/2023 09:39

And just before I get asked what if it was one of mine, they know perfectly well if the police come to my door the police themselves would be the least of their worries as I would punish them far worse. It is intollerable behaviour.

EndlessRain1 · 09/01/2023 09:42

It will probably be noted by the police, but obviously won't be on their criminal record if not prosecuted. Rightly so. Perhaps if should go to court, but as above the legal system is under horrendous pressure and CPS has to prioritise accordingly.

Face2facet · 09/01/2023 09:43

I’d want it to go to court, just as I’d expect if anyone punched me 5 times in the face for walking down the street. Why the hell not? Why do we expect our kids to just suck it up, when if it happened to us we’d expect severe consequences?

RudsyFarmer · 09/01/2023 09:44

I’m going to guess this child has had a troubled upbringing so I’m sure even if he gets away with this the police will be chapping the door again down the line and he won’t be a child forever.

Do what you need to do to protect the child but expect zero from the police. If it had a hate crime characteristic by the way they’d be ALL over it.

Original poster
Whatshouldhappenhere · 09/01/2023 09:47

I obviously don’t know the boy in question so I’m making some (natural, I think) assumptions about him but I doubt this would be his first run in with the police. He’s already been expelled from school in year 8, I know it has to be really quite bad for a school to even be able to expel a child so he can’t be a good kid. Doing this also shows he hasn’t changed since expulsion, it isn’t as though he’s learnt any sort of lesson from it and is trying to turn things around if he thought it was ok to do this to my DS.

I’m not sure what I expected but I definitely expected the PC to be here longer than five minutes. I’m worried that if the boy wasn’t in when the PC visited then it will just be dropped entirely and he will think he’s totally got away with it too.

OP posts:
Original poster
Whatshouldhappenhere · 09/01/2023 09:49

Face2facet · 09/01/2023 09:43

I’d want it to go to court, just as I’d expect if anyone punched me 5 times in the face for walking down the street. Why the hell not? Why do we expect our kids to just suck it up, when if it happened to us we’d expect severe consequences?

I agree with this but I was assaulted six years ago, the perpetrator admitted to it but the police didn’t deem it serious enough so he was released without charge. I don’t have a great experience with the police and this has further amplified things. It sort of makes me think contacting them is totally pointless.

OP posts:
limoncelloo · 09/01/2023 09:50

The police very rarely criminalise children now, and the threshold to do so is extremely high. There is no such thing as "juvey" anymore. There are reasons why children are not criminalised which are evidence based and have been extensively researched.

The child would need to be a prolific, prolific offender for this to happen. By criminalise, I mean the highest this tends to go is a youth conditional caution whereby the child would be cautioned and would have to complete some rehabilitative conditions attach to this. It is not as simple as "charging" someone.

What I'm saying is the police will have looked at the history of the suspect, if he has no history of doing things like this it unlikely something like this would he touched by a youth offending team or CPS.

You could ask about the possibility of an out of court disposal/community resolution? For this to happen though the suspect would need to admit guilt. It would involve taking a statement from your son, and then some paperwork is completed with both parties, the offender would admit to the offence and sign to say they will not repeat the behaviour/will leave you son alone etc etc. This is kept on record and if there are any further incidents this can be used.

I'm sorry for what happened to your son, and it sounds like a very scary situation for him. I hope the information I've given you doesn't sound blunt, but just trying to explain how the system works.

Original poster
Whatshouldhappenhere · 09/01/2023 09:55

I can’t really see why he would have to admit guilt when there’s three solid witnesses outside of DS. The other two boys from school witnessed it, as did the woman who intervened. I have visited and spoken to the woman and she said she would be more than happy to speak to the police. I also have photos of his face.

I don’t expect him to go to prison or anything of the sort, I just expected something more than a little chat with a police officer. I doubt this will be his first run in with the police when he’s already been expelled from school in year 8 but maybe I’m wrong… He doesn’t seem the sort to even be bothered by a chat with the police and I’m assuming his parents wouldn’t be either if he’s been expelled and is now roaming the streets attacking random people.

OP posts:
EndlessRain1 · 09/01/2023 09:59

Whatshouldhappenhere · 09/01/2023 09:55

I can’t really see why he would have to admit guilt when there’s three solid witnesses outside of DS. The other two boys from school witnessed it, as did the woman who intervened. I have visited and spoken to the woman and she said she would be more than happy to speak to the police. I also have photos of his face.

I don’t expect him to go to prison or anything of the sort, I just expected something more than a little chat with a police officer. I doubt this will be his first run in with the police when he’s already been expelled from school in year 8 but maybe I’m wrong… He doesn’t seem the sort to even be bothered by a chat with the police and I’m assuming his parents wouldn’t be either if he’s been expelled and is now roaming the streets attacking random people.

" don’t expect him to go to prison or anything of the sort" and "I just expected something more than a little chat with a police officer"

But what? They can't punish him without some kind of prosecution. You can't do that (which is right). So if the police talking to him isn't enough, what is it you want to happen?

limoncelloo · 09/01/2023 10:03

Whatshouldhappenhere · 09/01/2023 09:55

I can’t really see why he would have to admit guilt when there’s three solid witnesses outside of DS. The other two boys from school witnessed it, as did the woman who intervened. I have visited and spoken to the woman and she said she would be more than happy to speak to the police. I also have photos of his face.

I don’t expect him to go to prison or anything of the sort, I just expected something more than a little chat with a police officer. I doubt this will be his first run in with the police when he’s already been expelled from school in year 8 but maybe I’m wrong… He doesn’t seem the sort to even be bothered by a chat with the police and I’m assuming his parents wouldn’t be either if he’s been expelled and is now roaming the streets attacking random people.

For a community resolution, the suspect must admit guilt. It does not matter if there are witnesses I'm afraid. You can Google this if you like.

Witnesses only come into play if the matter is taken further, to CPS etc.

You are making assumptions about him being the type that would have had run ins with police before, I'm not saying he hasn't but you really don't know this. Police will have looked at this when they made their decisions on how to approach the matter.

If the boy wasn't in when police have gone to speak with him, officers won't just write off the investigation with "wasn't at home". Officers have to justify their actions when updating crime reports and that they have taken reasonable action.

If you are that concerned, phone 101 with your crime reference number and ask for an update when the boy is spoken to?

AhoyMaBuoy · 09/01/2023 10:07

I must be a bitch then because I wouldn't give a fuck if he got a criminal record. He did it to himself
What did HE expect to happen???

Original poster
Whatshouldhappenhere · 09/01/2023 10:08

I have phoned 101 twice for an update and been told both times someone would call me back. The first time was Saturday evening, I was informed an officer would phone me straight back but that didn’t happen. Contacted again 24 hours later and was told the same but no one has called as yet. I will call again tomorrow if I still haven’t heard back.

Sorry if I seem defensive. He’s my son that’s all and he’s only 12 years old, he’s a really good boy and I just hate the fact someone has hurt him and seems to have got away with it.

OP posts:
Original poster
Whatshouldhappenhere · 09/01/2023 10:11

AhoyMaBuoy · 09/01/2023 10:07

I must be a bitch then because I wouldn't give a fuck if he got a criminal record. He did it to himself
What did HE expect to happen???

I have had similar thoughts. They know right from wrong at this age, hence age of criminal responsibility being ten. He was expelled a matter of weeks ago and instead of trying to turn his life around as some children would, he’s roaming around viciously attacking random people.

OP posts:
limoncelloo · 09/01/2023 10:14

Whatshouldhappenhere · 09/01/2023 10:08

I have phoned 101 twice for an update and been told both times someone would call me back. The first time was Saturday evening, I was informed an officer would phone me straight back but that didn’t happen. Contacted again 24 hours later and was told the same but no one has called as yet. I will call again tomorrow if I still haven’t heard back.

Sorry if I seem defensive. He’s my son that’s all and he’s only 12 years old, he’s a really good boy and I just hate the fact someone has hurt him and seems to have got away with it.

You are defensive but I understand you are upset about the situation as most people would be. I have children and I understand.

I'm just trying to give you a realistic view of how the system works. Police can't just do whatever they like, there are limitations to their powers, and there are policies and legislation they need to abide by. I'm telling you how things work now in terms of children and youths...

People saying well I'd want him to have a criminal record etc etc... well you can want that but I'm telling you it simply doesn't happen these days.

I understand calling 101 multiple times must be frustrating but the reality is that an incident like this won't be top priority, police are also an overstretched service. It may be allocated to a particular officer/team who may be on rest days, or just dealing with matters with a high threat or risk of harm.

Face2facet · 09/01/2023 10:18

limoncelloo · 09/01/2023 10:14

You are defensive but I understand you are upset about the situation as most people would be. I have children and I understand.

I'm just trying to give you a realistic view of how the system works. Police can't just do whatever they like, there are limitations to their powers, and there are policies and legislation they need to abide by. I'm telling you how things work now in terms of children and youths...

People saying well I'd want him to have a criminal record etc etc... well you can want that but I'm telling you it simply doesn't happen these days.

I understand calling 101 multiple times must be frustrating but the reality is that an incident like this won't be top priority, police are also an overstretched service. It may be allocated to a particular officer/team who may be on rest days, or just dealing with matters with a high threat or risk of harm.

Show quote history

we are clearly sending a message to the likes of OPs son that what happened to them doesn’t matter though, by not punishing the little scrote in any way. I am really confused as to how this can be a good thing? Surely the danger is that the victim feels that in some way it was deserved, and the perpetrator feels invincible?

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