To be expecting more from the police than this?

[Whatshouldhappenhere]

I did start a thread over in chat a few days ago and received some helpful responses but I’m just looking for some general advice about the police/legal system in general and hoping someone can help. Also wondering whether I’m expecting too much.

Background is: 12 yo DS was attacked on his way home from school last week by a boy he recognised from school but had never interacted with before and didn’t even know his name. DS overtook three boys from his year at school, one boy pulled his airpod from his ear as he walked past so DS snatched it back, shouted at them and ran away. After a short while, DS realised they weren’t chasing so stopped running but this boy then decided to start chasing, caught up with DS and punched him 4-5 times in the face. A woman who lived on the street intervened so the boy stopped and ran away (who knows how long the attack would have gone on for had she not intervened).

My first port of call was the school as soon as I found out, they said the student liaison officer would phone me back. Then I called 101 who took all of the details, gave me a crime number and said an officer would visit to take a statement. The SLO found out the boy who attacked DS was expelled before Christmas so the school had no jurisdiction and couldn’t act. He found the other two boys and had a chat with them but that’s the end of school involvement. The assistant head spoke to me on the phone last Thursday and promised he would have a chat with DS on Friday morning but never did. I believe this was simply damage control more than anything, he was acting like my best friend throughout the chat but didn’t follow through with the promise to chat to DS so I’m fairly disappointed although I do understand why the school can do very little else.

A police officer visited on Saturday. I thought he would sit and take a lengthy statement and be here a while but he was here for 5 minutes. He simply asked DS what happened and told me he would go talk to the boy and his parents now. I asked why it wouldn’t be taken any further and he said they don’t like putting children through the legal system over what was probably a heat of the moment thing. He said he’s sure I wouldn’t want DS’s life potentially ruined if he did something like this so I said DS wouldn’t do something like this though whereas this boy has and he’s already been expelled from school.

Basically police stance was they don’t like to charge children because it can affect their lives forever so deal with it. I contacted 101 later that day after mulling over it to ask to speak to the officer or someone else about it because I’m disappointed in the outcome. They said the officer would call me straight back but I’m still awaiting that call. Contacted 101 again yesterday to chase the call back and they said someone would call me but they’re unable to offer a timescale so I’m not hopeful anyone will.

Where do I go from here, if anywhere? Have the police done enough? Is a chat with the boy sufficient and I’m being horrible expecting anything beyond this? It’s just the fact it was a totally unprovoked attack and my DS is a really good boy, his only mistake was walking past the wrong person at the wrong time.

Ideally we would give the child training, education and therapy in the hope of straightening him out. There is clearly not the funding for this so it’s either lock him up or do nothing. We seem to be doing nothing. I think it’s much more civilised to lock him up.

What a ridiculous police response. Instead of thinking it would change a kids life forever why not think, stop them in their tracks whilst young and let them see their behaviour isn’t acceptable. Letting them off just minimises what they’ve done. Typical police though, leaning towards the side of the criminal.🙄

@Getoff yes, the incident is recorded in police systems. This is how the OP was given a crime reference number. All crimes reported to police must be recorded under the Home Office crime recording standards. It will be recorded as an incident with OPs son as "victim" and the other child as "suspect".

@bringmetheheadofpastaalfredo with all due respect, you don't know what interventions are going on behind the scenes and obviously OP will never be privy to these.

There could be involvement from social services and other agencies already. Kids really aren't just left to assault people, despite what people here seem to believe. Not criminalising doesn't mean that no action is taken.

If it is a one off (again, we don't know), being spoken to by a police officer is a proportionate response and as explained below realistically nothing else would happen.

Absolutely this.

Thisiswhy these bullies carry on, there’s just no consequences at all.

If my DD was bullied, I would want it to be dealt with harshly. Not just ‘having a word’. At the very least, I’d expect a massive bollocking & want the police to bring him round to apologise with the threat of if it happens again there will be harsher punishment. Scare him.

The fact that his injuries are ‘ok’ doesn’t mean he is, bullies leave lasting impressions on their victims.

I would want it to go further. Yes I’d want it to go to court. Your son is the victim and if he wants the police to take it further then they should. The boy has got off way too lightly

@StarDolphins @AngelDelightUK what some people here are not understanding is just because we want things, does not mean they will happen. Just because you want someone thrown in the cells or to get a "massive bollocking", doesn't mean it will happen. Just because we want something to go to court, or want someone to be charged, doesn't make it happen. Charging decisions are made by CPS, not the police.

A police officer turning up at a house to give a child a "massive bollocking" and then taking them to another address to force an apology would likely result in a complaint if not them being reprimanded. It's an abuse of police power.

The police aren't a law unto themselves and have procedures to follow, dragging a child around to someone's house to force them to give an apology simply would not happen. It might have happened many years ago, but things have changed for a reason. Many incidents were properly recorded many years ago, DV was acceptable etc.

A police officer taking statements, doing a full investigation into an incident like this (if it is a one off) and then taking the case to CPS because the parent wanted the suspect "charged" is highly likely to be "told off" and reprimanded by CPS/their supervisor as that is not the process/policy. As said earlier if this child is prolific then no doubt more would be happening, and no one here knows what may or may not be happening behind the scenes in relation to this child.

You have every right to be upset by what happened to your son OP, he was minding his own business and was attacked. But there are limitations to what the police can do. I've suggested reaching out to see if a community resolution would be an option.

And THIS is why a lot of people are now feral. Why should he getting a big telling off & be made to apologise for punching & bullying an innocent boy?

If my DD did this to another girl(she wouldn’t), I would be more than ok for the police to bollock her & take her to apologise.

Totally agree! The poor lad

Whatshouldhappenhere

Its OK wanting it to go to court, but its going to be your son who stands in the witness box alone - is that something your son wants to do?

If the officer has attended the address of the suspect and received no reply - they will go back. The crime can not be finalised otherwise. The officer will have a boat load of ongoing inquiries they will be doing in among all the other emergency jobs coming in. If there was no reply, they have to move on to the next job, they can't wait around at his address unfortunately. This is why the crime is still open and not yet finalised.

This is possibly the same reason why they only spent a short amount of time at your address. If they're was no requirement to obtain a statement at the time, then details for the crime would be obtained and safeguarding addressed for your son.

Keep trying the police - it could be that the officer is currently on rest days. If you phone 101, you will speak to a civilian operator who has limited access to the crime potentially. They can only forward an email on to the officer - but they sometimes forget to send this if they have a barrage of emergency calls straight after your call.

The assault on yourself - did the suspect receive a caution if they admitted the offence - just curious? Just because they were released without charge, the crime investigation will still need to be finalised.

My DD was beaten up by a group of kids. She had a bad concussion and a black eye. The investigation took a good while and ultimately because the one witness we had wouldn't 'grass' (because that's what her mother told her it would be) we couldn't get anything done. There is a video that we can't get hold of but the case is being kept open in case we can. I wanted the children to be punished because I wanted it to be a harsh warning to not go down the road they were starting on. All the kids were from 'known' families and so this behaviour is sadly the norm

StarDolphins
That's great - but we don't have any powers to take her to the victims house to make her apologise.

We can 'bollock' them, but generally a police officer shouting at kids who are a bit 'feral' just goes in one ear and out the other.

We can look at ASBO's etc, but they is usually a long process to get these in place and will need more than one offence to take into consideration. But would these necessarily stop then next assault?

Its a difficult one - but you have to be realistic in what you are wanting the police to do and what they can actually do in law.

They are loads of counselling and help organisations to help victims of crime though which can be accessed through the police.

marrymeadam
Its horrible - the other problem we find is that the suspects all club together and give accounts to back each other up. So suddenly its you daughter's word against 10 others and they all say its was you DD who was the aggressor.

Actually I do have a good idea that it's unlikely that much of anything is going on behind the scenes. There may well be SS involvement but sadly that's unlikely to be involvement of the type that is doing anything to stop this kind of behaviour or get him off the path is probably already hurtling along.

Hope your son is on the mend OP. He will be traumatised by this. Sending good wishes to you both.

You need to complain, start at the police station (if open to the public), there's also an online form and build to IOPC involvement. This is ineffective policing, your son was assaulted. Your MP needs to know about this too.

Go back to the school as well, if kids are being chased home by gobshites then they need to be empowered and know the correct protocol to protect themselves and others.

What does your son want to happen?

There is also the danger that citizens take matters into their own hands when the police don’t act. In recent years there have been numerous stories about this happening and it’s not a good thing.

It's just another outcome of the cutting to public services, not just the police but to initiatives and access to support for troubled children. A 12 year old who has been expelled from school and has no doubt been 'told off' by police before no doubt has a tonne of shit going on. Whilst of course it doesn't mean they should get away with it, historically there would have been interventions that could have been accessed, those have vanished and the options are pretty much limited. If it did ever get to court (unlikely) locking a child up in a young offenders institute rarely changes these behaviours.

Thanks Tories xo

@bringmetheheadofpastaalfredo you have no idea at all.

You can make a complaint to any police force if you are unhappy. Victims right to review is only if a suspect has been interviewed under caution and then the decision for no further action has been taken. You can complaint to IOPC about force policy, of if you have experienced inappropriate behaviour from a police officer.

You really have no basis to tell me that. You don't know what my job is or what my experience is.

My DS is a really laid back, quiet boy so in all honesty, he was more bothered about the fact he had tried to take his airpod than anything else. He was disappointed in the police response because he thought it was a waste of time (his immediate words, he hadn’t heard this from me first). I think that’s because we were both expecting a full on statement, not a 5 minute conversation.

He’s apprehensive about ever walking through that estate again which is completely understandable. It isn’t something he usually has to do, on this occasion the bus company had sent a small bus and started turning children away once it reached capacity so DS had to walk home. I have spoken to the owner of the bus company who reassured me this wouldn’t happen in future, they took the contract from another company who told them they only needed a small vehicle for that route which they now know isn’t the case.

He does go to an after school club on a Tuesday though so usually has to walk through the estate to get a different bus so he’s worried about that incase he bumps into this boy again. I don’t know for sure but think this boy lives on said estate so fairly high probability DS would encounter him again. It isn’t the nicest estate and is renowned for being the worst in our area (small town) so not great. The school is in a nice area but sadly borders on this estate so there’s no way around it to get home.

Thank you all for the advice and well wishes for DS. It has been a shock to our system, you just don’t expect something like this to happen when DS was doing nothing other than walking home from school. I’ve spent almost a week now being stressed about it and frankly quite angry too. I don’t know what I expected from ‘the system’ but I don’t doubt this boy will go on to commit other crimes, I just hope he doesn’t hurt anyone else and I also hope he never darkens our door again.

It’s not nice but it’s one of those things

Police can’t be involved in every playground scrap

@bringmetheheadofpastaalfredo no one here knows what is going on behind the scenes, we can only guess. It doesn't matter what you do for a job.

Hmm, it wasn’t a playground scrap though. If DS knew the boy beforehand and DS got involved in an altercation- basic mud slinging between kids then I wouldn’t expect the police to be involved. DS had no idea who this boy was and was viciously attacked for nothing other than walking past him in the street.

And if someone your age that you didn’t know punched you 4-5 times in the face while you were going about your business would you be cool with the police doing nothing about it???? Ffs!