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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to ask why it's seen as rude, unreasonable or seen as taboo to point out certain things

189 replies

pillow56 · 06/01/2023 17:57

Example I have seen many threads on mn saying how expensive it is to have kids and how people can't afford them/more kids which is fair enough.

Yet when people both in real life and on mn say that struggling parents who had alot of kids shouldn't have had so many kids if they couldn't afford them then it's an unreasonable thing to say and they get criticised for pointing it out?

Like it's different if the parents had good jobs before the kids came along but they lost them or some unforeseen thing happened that hit the finances but I'm talking about parents who never had cash or a great career before the kids came along. It is perfectly their right to have kids but surely they know that kids equate to expense before they have them so are they surprised?

I'd love to have kids myself but I can't afford them but I wouldn't find it offensive somebody pointing out the financial realities of kids if I suddenly planned to have kids tomorrow. So why do people get offended by this?

OP posts:
5128gap · 06/01/2023 19:29

Why is it rude? Well, because in our society if you think critical or negative things about a person's lifestyle, provided they're not harming anyone, the social convention is to think those thoughts in the privacy of your own mind. That means not saying them to the person, or about the person behind their back.
Were you not taught that as a child?

MilkyYay · 06/01/2023 19:35

Because saying that a child shouldn't have been born is an arsehole thing to say

There is a difference between saying a child shouldn't have been born, & saying that a set of adults knowingly made a choice that was financially poor and shouldn't then whinge about it afterwards.

Coffeellama · 06/01/2023 19:36

MilkyYay · 06/01/2023 19:35

Because saying that a child shouldn't have been born is an arsehole thing to say

There is a difference between saying a child shouldn't have been born, & saying that a set of adults knowingly made a choice that was financially poor and shouldn't then whinge about it afterwards.

There is, but the OP is saying that’s it’s ok to say ‘you shouldn’t have had kids’… which is saying the kids shouldn’t have been conceived and born.

ICanHideButICantRun · 06/01/2023 19:37

There isn't any point in saying "You shouldn't have had your children" but it's pretty obvious that some people, despite free contraception and free morning after pills, make really crazy choices in having their children.

Cuppasoupmonster · 06/01/2023 19:37

Coffeellama · 06/01/2023 19:36

There is, but the OP is saying that’s it’s ok to say ‘you shouldn’t have had kids’… which is saying the kids shouldn’t have been conceived and born.

Show quote history

No it’s saying ‘did you not consider X glaringly obviously problem when you decided to have them?’ It’s a mixture of frustration and highlighting that they’re the author of whatever misfortune they’re banging on about.

MilkyYay · 06/01/2023 19:38

you shouldn’t have had kids’… which is saying the kids shouldn’t have been conceived and born,

Its not questioning the existence of the kids its deriding the poor judgement of the parents. You have to separate the two.

LonginesPrime · 06/01/2023 19:39

a lady in my office had 5 kids and her dh was always unemployed. She'd tell us how broke they were and after she left the room my other colleague said to us she shouldn't have any more kids then. It was a fair point but the others told her it was a rude comment and I secretly agreed and could see nothing wrong with it.

Are you frustrated because you want to tell her not to have any more children but feel you can't, or because you want her to stop moaning about her money troubles because it upsets you?

You've made your choices based on your values and beliefs and she's presumably done the same.

What is it that you're trying to achieve? To make her see the world the way you do or to stop her rubbing the fact she's got children and is poor in your face?

Emmamoo89 · 06/01/2023 19:39

I didn't have a lot of money before my son but definitely couldn't be without him and you just make it work. Money comes and goes.

Coffeellama · 06/01/2023 19:40

MilkyYay · 06/01/2023 19:38

you shouldn’t have had kids’… which is saying the kids shouldn’t have been conceived and born,

Its not questioning the existence of the kids its deriding the poor judgement of the parents. You have to separate the two.

‘You shouldn’t have had kids’ is questioning the existence of the kids, if you can’t understand then there’s no point discussing it really.

Original poster
pillow56 · 06/01/2023 19:41

There is, but the OP is saying that’s it’s ok to say ‘you shouldn’t have had kids’… which is saying the kids shouldn’t have been conceived and born

I'm actually saying the parents should have considered the financial implications before having them and then bitching about it. I'm also pointing out those who had a few, couldn't afford it and saw the realities but kept having them.

OP posts:
daybroke · 06/01/2023 19:42

But you want a child and you'd consider ivf and you don't have money and you're disabled.

Original poster
pillow56 · 06/01/2023 19:44

But you want a child and you'd consider ivf and you don't have money and you're disabled

Am I having a kid? No.

I couldn't even afford ivf so it's not a consideration. I considered it when I was working and stable but couldn't afford it so didn't.

OP posts:
Coffeellama · 06/01/2023 19:48

pillow56 · 06/01/2023 19:41

There is, but the OP is saying that’s it’s ok to say ‘you shouldn’t have had kids’… which is saying the kids shouldn’t have been conceived and born

I'm actually saying the parents should have considered the financial implications before having them and then bitching about it. I'm also pointing out those who had a few, couldn't afford it and saw the realities but kept having them.

Yeah you are… so I’m not sure why you’re quoting me there. You think people with no money shouldn’t have had kids, or carried on having kids. The woman in your OP that you agreed with said ‘shouldn’t have had kids’

Mamai90 · 06/01/2023 19:48

Plenty of people who grow up poor grow up happy. My dad was one of ten, raised on a wing on a prayer and had an amazing childhood. My mum is from a middle class background so she had everything she wanted material wise growing up but her childhood was sometimes difficult in other ways.

It's none of your business first of all, and it's not helpful to tell someone they shouldn't have had kids. It's your decision not to have any, that's your business, keep your nose out of other peoples.

Never in the real world do I hear the shit I hear on here, it's a parallel universe. I really can't imagine what sort of person is so invested in other people's lives, it's just weird to me.

Original poster
pillow56 · 06/01/2023 19:50

Plenty of people who grow up poor grow up happy. My dad was one of ten, raised on a wing on a prayer and had an amazing childhood

real poverty cripples happiness. I also think poverty back in the day was standard was more doable than these days.

OP posts:
Original poster
pillow56 · 06/01/2023 19:51

Yeah you are… so I’m not sure why you’re quoting me there. You think people with no money shouldn’t have had kids, or carried on having kids. The woman in your OP that you agreed with said ‘shouldn’t have had kids

no she said shouldn't have MORE kids

OP posts:
Original poster
pillow56 · 06/01/2023 19:54

Yeah you are… so I’m not sure why you’re quoting me there

and i'm quoting you because you are reporting things I never said to stir shit.

OP posts:
Coffeellama · 06/01/2023 19:57

pillow56 · 06/01/2023 19:51

Yeah you are… so I’m not sure why you’re quoting me there. You think people with no money shouldn’t have had kids, or carried on having kids. The woman in your OP that you agreed with said ‘shouldn’t have had kids

no she said shouldn't have MORE kids

You said a few posts up…

I'm also pointing out those who had a few, couldn't afford it and saw the realities but kept having them.

Keha · 06/01/2023 19:58

I'm trying to answer the OP about why it's rude, I think it's partly because it is about very personal, intimate decisions. So if you had said it to a colleagues face would you be prepared for the conversation about how contraception failed or differing views on abortion or abuse in relationships or similar. It's a bit like if you had a colleague who'd married someone who seemed quite dodgy, unless you were really close you wouldn't call them out over it at lunch in the office. Secondly there is a sort of implication that the children would be better off not existing which is quite upsetting to the parent. I also think that although people might moan and complain often they don't mean they don't want the kids or are that unhappy, but people just like a moan. It comes across as very judgemental, because basically I think it is very judgemental. Its saying you are stupid/wrong/bad for having those kids - which as a parent is an upsetting thing to be told. It might be true. But basically it's "rude" because it's passing a big judgement on someone's life choices. I don't think I'd want to have a go at my colleagues choice of footwear unless I knew them very well so why would I publicly criticise such personal, family decisions around their children and finances. Would you tell someone you thought they were stupid to move to a certain city or buy a certain house etc? Would you do that in a room full of people who were work colleagues? I don't think I would because I think it would be offensive/nasty and wouldn't help them either.

Coffeellama · 06/01/2023 19:58

Coffeellama · 06/01/2023 19:57

You said a few posts up…

I'm also pointing out those who had a few, couldn't afford it and saw the realities but kept having them.

Show quote history

Wait I’m confused about which bit you’ve taken issue now… you said shouldn’t have had kids, and that once seeing the financial issues shouldn’t have carried on having kids…

silentpool · 06/01/2023 20:07

Just because you can (point it out), doesn't mean you should (point it out). It's just not helpful particularly.

I could go around upsetting people by telling them they are overweight, idiotic, boring etc but SHOULD I? Nope.

Supertatato · 06/01/2023 20:15

Having kids is an emotional decision not always based on logic. I wonder if you are forcing a logical view on it to make your circumstances easier to deal with or if you are genuinely a robot.

Letitrainletitrainletitrain · 06/01/2023 20:16

In the last 10 years average house prices have gone up over 60k average rents are up at least 130 per month, average electric bills have risen from 40 per month to 263, council tax has gone up about 32%, meanwhile average salaries have only gone up about 4k.

that's never mind all the other costs that have increased over the past 19 years.

Maybe your colleague could afford the children when she had them, but like the rest of us with or without children, is finding the cost of living rises hard to cope with

Blame profit margins not parents

BubziOwl · 06/01/2023 20:35

pillow56 · 06/01/2023 19:09

or you could have poor parents who struggle financially but give a really wholesome loving upbringing. It’s not as clear cut as you are trying to make out

it's hard to give a loving upbringing when the kids and the parents are starving and the house is freezing.

As someone who grew up with a poor but very loving mother, I'm quite grateful I'm here tbh. I've had a cracking life. But perhaps you'd rather my mum aborted me because it makes you feel better 🤷‍♀️

CantPreventSpring · 06/01/2023 20:38

OP, I think that having a family should be a right. If you want to have children but will remain childless for life because you don't think you can afford to have even one, that's a failure of society.