to ask why it's seen as rude, unreasonable or seen as taboo to point out certain things

[pillow56]

Example I have seen many threads on mn saying how expensive it is to have kids and how people can't afford them/more kids which is fair enough.

Yet when people both in real life and on mn say that struggling parents who had alot of kids shouldn't have had so many kids if they couldn't afford them then it's an unreasonable thing to say and they get criticised for pointing it out?

Like it's different if the parents had good jobs before the kids came along but they lost them or some unforeseen thing happened that hit the finances but I'm talking about parents who never had cash or a great career before the kids came along. It is perfectly their right to have kids but surely they know that kids equate to expense before they have them so are they surprised?

I'd love to have kids myself but I can't afford them but I wouldn't find it offensive somebody pointing out the financial realities of kids if I suddenly planned to have kids tomorrow. So why do people get offended by this?

Tbh OP it's pretty difficult to get pregnant on your own anyway. You are not a self seeding plant. Your mum should have had this talk with you a few years ago.

i'm not feeling superior. I'd love a kid myself but I can't afford it.

So despite your ‘I’m not superior’ thing, having no money is clearly not the reason you aren’t having kids is it.

So why are you focusing on the money aspect

because it's 1 of the biggest issues with parents and families-they have kids and can't afford them. Why am I the bitch from hell for pointing it out?

Before having kids 1 should seriously consider their financial position. Look at all the threads here talking about the despair of living in poverty with kids fgs, that's a very tough life.

what you’re then essentially saying is only the wealthy (not rich per se but steady income, solid employment, own home etc) are entitled to have children.

There’s a word for choosing who should or shouldn’t be allowed to procreate…

What do we then do about countries where poverty (as we see it) is a way of life? Africa, India, parts of Europe and Middle East… are the people who work for tuppance and live in one room buildings aren’t allowed children?

It’s not only rude but it’s very shortsighted and it lacks critical thinking further than your own direct experience.

I agree in the ideal world no children would be brought into less than stable financial circumstances but you cannot fundamentally tell those stuck in the lower social economic cycle that they can’t and shouldn’t have children? it’s so much bigger than that

Tbh OP it's pretty difficult to get pregnant on your own anyway. You are not a self seeding plant. Your mum should have had this talk with you a few years ago

you do know about ivf and sperm donors? Perhaps your mum didn't give you the full talk xx

If those sort of people (🙄) stop having kids then the middle class mummies are going to have to give up on their dreams for Araminta and Tarquinius to go Oxbridge because there won't be enough people to do the sort of menial jobs the middle classes think are beneath them.

Eugenics side effect innit.

Its a rude comment, because it has implications that only certain people should be allowed to have children, and that bar is set entirely on financial status.

It is possible to be poor, have more than one child, and be an excellent parent who turns out well rounded, kind and well adjusted adults. Ive known people live off grid, in very alternative set ups, with barely a bean, who have had wonderful creative kids, who have gone on to work in high places or have amazing artistic careers - or simply just be wonderful parents themselves.

It is possible to be absolutely loaded, but neglect or abuse your children. Ive known children of peers who are completely off the rails, destructive, damaged, with ongoing MH and violence issues, as a result of their 'priviledged' upbringings.

Yes, being poor may be a struggle, but having a child is not, and should never be, means tested.

You allow that and you are halfway to the eugenic sterilisation of those deemed unworthy by whatever criteria those in power determine. And you can bet your life it will be down to money and power, not soft skills and nurture.

Not quite the same but I once knew someone who had two kids, both parents worked and kids well provided for but the mum was always moaning about wishing she could afford a bigger/better house (theirs appeared absolutely fine) and wishing she could go on fancier holidays etc. It was almost constant so very noticeable.

Anyway, she had a car on finance but one day the dealership called to say they had a "great deal" on a newer car. I pointed out that we afforded nice holidays because we had kept our car once we'd finished paying for it so only had to pay for the tax, insurance, fuel etc so saved what we had been paying to go on more expensive holidays. She argued that it was a newer car for £5 less a month but wouldn't acknowledge that she would be paying for a few more years because of it. My pointing it out didn't go down well and she had a new car within days.

Point being, some people seem to moan a lot but don't want to take responsibility for it or make changes that will actually benefit them, and it's pointless passing them off by pointing it out.

This is such a ridiculous thread… you could have rich parents that can provide everything financially but lack emotional support or you could have poor parents who struggle financially but give a really wholesome loving upbringing. It’s not as clear cut as you are trying to make out

or you could have poor parents who struggle financially but give a really wholesome loving upbringing. It’s not as clear cut as you are trying to make out

it's hard to give a loving upbringing when the kids and the parents are starving and the house is freezing.

You don't seem to understand that thinking (or even knowing) that your opinion is correct doesn't make it any less rude or unpleasant to make uninvited judgemental remarks about people's life choices or personal situations. Are you generally lacking in social skills?

It isn’t that though is it? Nobody is going to ‘do away with’ children who already exist. But equally it’s bloody frustrating seeing people who pop out baby after baby with different dads, all of them identifiable as a loser at 1000 paces, before coming on here to moan about not getting maintenance payments.

Some people really overestimate the value of their opinions. Does it need saying? Does it need saying now? Does it need saying by me? Ask yourself those questions before giving your opinions and you’ll quickly find a lot of what you open your mouth for is unwarranted and unnecessary

Ah, it's ok to mention these things if we blame everyone except the person who did the stuff to themselves.

Oh, it's the schools, oh its the house that the council lets them live in for next to nothing. For Mumsnet gold - "It's the Tories".............

Yes very rude as it's none of anyone else's business.
Why are you on benefits? If you had a job you might be able to afford a child!!!
Oh but wait, that's none of my business is it?
The best think to do is mind your OWN business and let others do the same.
Otherwise you will be see as obnoxious, nasty. thick etc etc.
If you commented on my Family or circumstances you would get it right back with avengance.

Yes very rude as it's none of anyone else's business

the mother was making it everybody's business though by telling us how they can't afford x,y and z. She'd told us the exact same 6 years ago I recall-she had 2 kids since that.

Ah, it's ok to mention these things if we blame everyone except the person who did the stuff to themselves.
Oh, it's the schools, oh its the house that the council lets them live in for next to nothing. For Mumsnet gold - "It's the Tories

there is a tendency on mn and in real life for people to avoid personal responsibility for their actions and blame the government, teachers, schools etc

There's a very specific term for what you're advocating for.

That aside, I do think people should think more consciously about their life choices - don't get absolutely wasted then spend the night in A&E wasting nurses' time, for example. But suggesting that only people who can afford kids should have them is a very different ball game. I hate to bring this up but being provided with absolutely anything and everything you could ever wish for in life didn't really work out for at least one Prince I can think of.

There’s also a tendency on MN of people insisting that any misfortune is always your own fault. Ridiculous amount of people believe in the Just World fallacy here.

Torn with this - there is a big issue seller near me who has been pregnant at least 3 times and already had kids. It does make me wonder about life choices when I see her having another child.

But this is a very bizarre argument. At some point yes the government have to take responsibility for the society they have created. It is not the fault of a nurse that s/he can't earn enough to avoid having to work back to back shifts, with added overtime only to end up needing to use a foodbank at the end of it all. A country like the UK shouldn't have 'warm banks', footballers shouldn't have to shame the government into providing kids school meals. People shouldn't have to work 2/3 jobs to just about survive. No amount of 'personal responsibility' can save you from the material conditions you exist in within the framework of the society.

It is perfectly their right to have kids"

Well you answered your own question really. And other people's financial problems are nobody's business but their own.

No one who has had kids will accept that it may have not been the best time to conceive them, and will take personal offence if you mention it (as you’ve seen in this thread). We are all, thankfully , designed to love our kids and that is the way it should be.

That is why this comment grates on most people. Having said that I see, no reason why it shouldn’t be discussed, because really, financial hardship is not the best environment in which to bring up a kid.

Well you answered your own question really. And other people's financial problems are nobody's business but their own

it is when it adds to the backlog of housing queues or why tax keeps increasing in the UK.

Possible solution :

Social housing tenants, forcible sterilisation of both parents after one child as they are irresponsible.

Owner-occupiers, financial assessment of job prospects, & suitable allocation of possible offspring.

RF - let them breed like rabbits as they are of course better than their subjects & live off of the taxes that us common folk pay.