AIBU to think Rishi Sunak is sadistic and unreasonable to want all pupils to study maths up to 18?

[Boysgrownbutstillathome]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64158179

To an extent yes OP I agree.

Mum to 14 year old DD who has struggled with maths from day 1 and to be honest I'll be gobsmacked if she even scrapes a pass thanks to shit, rushed maths teaching at primary.

We support all we can and she sees a tutor every week and works her arse off but forcing her to keep at it an extra two years will gain nothing.

The money - hollow laugh as exactly WTF is he going to get that from - would be better spent on recruitment and then better foundations at primary and early secondary.

Yep as an ITP we have many Apprentices drop out due to having to complete the FS maths.

Why not just a core subject so you at least get to choose maths english or a science based on your strengths? I've always been alright at maths but find it incredibly boring at a basic level which is what this will end up being. If you choose a core subject then at least it can be a bit more advanced.

Some sort of functional maths study to include things like budgeting, calculating interest and tax, that would be so much more helpful and relevant

I think he should make sure that all children have the option of a school place first because there are some under 16 that have no access to a maths education at present.

But this is the sort of stuff you should be doing at primary school.
So if people are leaving school at 16 without being able to do this basic stuff despite ostensibly having 5 more years to go over it what use is another 2 years really going to make?

Then for those who can do basic/everyday maths at a reasonable standard by 14/16 what's the point in teaching them advanced maths - algebra, trignomety etc that the vast majority won't ever need to use?

The fact that it's "hard" isn't necessarily a positive unless it's relevant or useful.

People keep suggesting things that should be added to the curriculum but in order to do so we will have to have some hard conversations about what to take off!

This is what I was trying to say and not doing too well

I'm the same @Porcinimushroom. High grades at GCSE/A Level in English, English Lit and History. It's depressing how undervalued arts and humanities subjects continue to be.

I loathed Maths, wasn't particularly good at it but should have been able to get a C. I was in the intermediate set at GCSE level, the vast majority of the class should have been passing. However, most people failed, because we had an absolutely useless teacher. Just poor at teaching, poor discipline, poor all around really.

When I went back to sixth form, we were told we had to resit Maths if we failed it. Most of us were bunking off the lessons and about a month later, the teachers told us if we didn't want to bother, we could stop. Had to sign something, of course I was all too eager to do this, and that was it. This was only in 2004 as well.

I don't agree with continuing Maths until 18. I would like to see good Maths teaching up to GCSE that covers things that will really make a difference in the real world.

I loved sixth form and being able to focus on the subjects I was interested in. I worked far harder and achieved more because I wasn't miserable having to study things that I either didn't like or were of no use. A PP mentioned continuing with a MFL until 18- that's ridiculous IMO, unless someone has a real interest in it or envisages doing a job where it would be useful. I view the hours spent doing German as an utter waste of time- I passed German easily, but can't even say a sentence of it now. Pointless.

@Oher
The numeracy strategy was based on proper mental mathematics but was replaced by Gove in favour of barking out multiplication tables.

I can see this being hugely beneficial, if implemented the right way.

Like it or not, increasing numbers of careers need a good grasp of numbers. Keeping the door open for studying that longer can only be a good thing. The days of 'nobody needs it', 'I can't do it' and laughing at not being able to do simple math needs to be over, or we're not going to stay globally competitive very much longer,

Yep, again!

And just where do we find all of these maths teachers ( when hardly anyone has studied maths beyond 16)?

And there will be no extra money for schools to employ specialists. No doubt, in the future, ‘watered down’ and offered to Rishi’s mates with private tutoring companies. ( whilst schools are hauled over the coals AGAIN for another failed, underfunded, ill thought out initiative. 😡

I’m not a fan. It is likely to put off a lot of kids. And it’s so, so unbalanced. I’m sick to death of the privileging of STEM at the cost of everything else. We don’t need every single kid to be expert at Maths and science. And those who don’t specialise don’t need Maths beyond GCSE. How many people seriously use algebra or trignometry in everyday life. What about restoring languages, drama and music? It used to be that any state school child could learn an instrument - so good for team work, wellbeing and creativity.

YABVVVU, I never cease to be amazed how little basic maths people have. I once had to spend an hour explaining to senior managers who were lawyers what mean, median and % meant and why results were really good rather than bad.

I have spent decades explaining peoples salaries and salary calculations etc., it is painful how little many people understand figures.

Personally I would like to see the curriculum use practical applications e.g. mortgage rates, APR etc.

Children should leave school at 16 with a good grasp of maths. If they're still struggling at that point the issue isn't the length of time they've been studying.

I do feel that alongside maths children should be taught finance including interest rates, budgeting and basics of inflation.

Stop teaching academic maths in favour of finance and money management. Budgeting, credit cards, sensible strategies...

Getting good at working out how much further money goes when you don't go to Costa, the pros and cons of getting a phone up front with a sim deal rather than a contract. Add in eco stuff, you'd have some fab citizens.

Not for everyone though. Imo if a dc is doing A level maths and FM then they probably don’t need another subject at a more basic level

However my preference is for economics skew anyway. People are very low on understanding

I appreciate that he is actually addressing his own short comings by putting it right for the younger generations.

I grew up in a country where you had to be in some sort of education until 18. Maths, English and some sort of economics / politics was always compulsory and built into the curriculum.

I am not against the idea, but the whole education system will need to be restructured to accommodate any meaningful learning.

I see the value in keeping some sort of literacy AND numeracy lessons throughout school. However, you'd need to reform the entire senior education programme to make it more general. It's no good if you're only taking 3 A levels and two of them have to be English and Maths!

Personally though, I was very happy to stop maths at 16 and it has never held me back. By that time you have covered all the basics that you need - percentages, interest, statistics, day-to-day calculations.

I think the new GCSE does have a requirement for understanding tax and interest rates etc.
agree absolutely about eco studies.
Also my son did Citizenship, which I suspect would be looked down on as a soft GCSE, but my God, I wish everyone did it. It encouraged critical thinking and gave an understanding about politics and the UK in the world that is sorely, sorely lacking in the wider population. The Tories will scrap it if they ever cotton on.

@MarshaBradyo couldn't agree more! My lad did maths, economics, etc. just qualified as a chartered accountant. He wouldn't have needed extra maths.

However, he could visit and give them a chat about the delights of using a spreadsheet to organise every element of your life!

I was an oxford undergraduate. Very bright. Good education. I didn't recognise my first trip 'into the red' in my bank statement. It wasn't in red, and there were no negative numbers. Just a D after the figure instead of a C.

It's pretty basic, but my excellent education didn't cover it.

Its a very good idea to include maths in some form up to aged 18; and could be incorporated into existing business; media and IT courses to enable students to learn in an applied way.

The jobs of the future are going to be different- we will rely even more on technology than we do now; and if we don't have these skills in our workforce then the economy will suffer (and less money for health and older people's care)

Agree wholeheartedly. My son is in year 10 and hates maths with a passion. Once he has done his gcses he will never have to use the vast majority of it ever again and to force children like him to continue with a subject they hate, and which they are never going to get or enjoy, is sadistic. I think teaching budgeting skills and useful info about mortgages and interests rates etc would be helpful if done in a 'providing information' way, rather than forcing children to struggle through pointless equations and formulas.

Why did it cut anything off? I take it you had GCSEs in maths and sciences? I stopped them all at 14 ( because I took GCSEs two years early) and it never held me back from anything - when I had to take an accounts paper for a legal qualification, my GCSE teaching was more than adequate.

Im not sure what problem he is trying to solve though this policy. As ever, the devil is in the detail. Pupils already have to continue with maths post-16 if they didn’t pass GCSE.

Is he talking about forcing everyone to do A level maths? Will it be in place of an existing course or as well as? Will he just be adding a ‘maths module’ on to whatever is a already being studied?

I agree with the above sentiment, the obsession with Maths and sciences appears to be at the expense of the Arts, we need the creative subjects for a successful economy, thinking creatively, using your imagination is essential with those subjects anyway!

My DS has applied to study Maths A level alongside English Literature and politics and he can’t wait to focus on just the three subjects. He says he has a mind block with languages and would hate a general education from 16, that is not that way he learns, like me he likes to be passionate about his subjects, you can’t do that with a broad brush approach. ‘Jack of all trades, Master of none’!

Besides, when is Sunak going to sort out the NHS’s demise! The Tories definitely want to be ousted at the next election I think. I know some wealthy tories turning their backs on them now as they are completely incompetent. Even losing their Boomer friends with the NHS crisis! They didn’t do the maths when it comes to predicting the post brexit epic NHS staff shortages or the Brexit maths that has left our economy akin to that of Spain!