Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think Rishi Sunak is sadistic and unreasonable to want all pupils to study maths up to 18?

275 replies

Boysgrownbutstillathome · 04/01/2023 10:59

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64158179

OP posts:
girlmom21 · 04/01/2023 11:36

Georgeskitchen · 04/01/2023 11:35

For many, simple arithmetic is adequate, some don't seem to be able to that anymore. I used to work in bars as a teenager (before digital tills) and I became an expert in mental arithmetic. Anything beyond that I was completely stumped!!

This is the issue. They're saying a huge amount of school leavers don't have basic maths ability - what difference is another 2 years going to make if they haven't grasped it in the first 11 years of education?

We need to intervene much earlier for people who need extra support.

MarshaBradyo · 04/01/2023 11:37

mrshiddleston69 · 04/01/2023 11:31

Very good idea! I come from a country where we do this and we're all better off. I was shocked when I learned it's optional in the UK

We did too but some do applied maths not pure maths so I’m guessing if it’s not naturally for you there are options

Sillybanana · 04/01/2023 11:37

It’s definitely a pointless distraction from the tories, and I can see many from their PR machine have jumped straight on this thread.

Sillybanana · 04/01/2023 11:38

JulieMarooley · 04/01/2023 11:28

I think a lot of people would benefit from learning maths more slowly and focussing only on the basics - numeracy, percentages, basic understanding of graphs and statistics, interest rates etc. I.e. Primary school maths, repeated until they understand it. I don’t think this would take until age 18.

Good idea.

MarshaBradyo · 04/01/2023 11:38

Sillybanana · 04/01/2023 11:37

It’s definitely a pointless distraction from the tories, and I can see many from their PR machine have jumped straight on this thread.

Any view that isn’t wah you’re all bots from Labour anymore?

JenniferBarkley · 04/01/2023 11:39

Agree with the other Irish posters, it's crackers to me that DC specialise to such an extent at the age of 16. I think everyone should be studying some form of Maths, English, MFL and science until they leave school.

I agree with the idea of a basic level qualification that covers mathematical topics that are useful in day to day life - numeracy, basic stats, compound interest immediately come to mind.

On the flip side, I worked in a mathematical field within the financial services and came across more than one graduate who hadn't written an essay since their GCSEs, and boy did it show when they were asked to write a report.

lollipoprainbow · 04/01/2023 11:40

Great for kids that are bright and love school, what about the ones that struggle?? How about ploughing more money into mental health services for children.

IbizaToTheNorfolkBroads · 04/01/2023 11:41

It's not about making everyone understand pure maths, it's about developing functional numeracy, understanding interest rates, percentages, conversion rates and all those other day to day maths problems that people laugh about, say they don't understand and then have problems with. (No one every jokes about but being able to read).

JenniferBarkley · 04/01/2023 11:42

No one every jokes about but being able to read.

So so true.

BabyOnBoard90 · 04/01/2023 11:42

It's a red herring

YANBU

DarkKarmaIlama · 04/01/2023 11:43

Perhaps just improve/fund the education system more adequately and then you won’t need to create entirely new objectives, there’s a wild thought.

jtaeapa · 04/01/2023 11:43

There is no point in two more years of maths if a child hasn't got to grips with it after 12 years of education. However, if the maths offered from 16-18 was made up of life skills (such as calculating how many litres of paint would be needed to give a room with given dimensions two coats, or doing percentage discounts and comparing them with other deals, or learning about the maths of a mortgage, or budgeting) - then fine. But learning stuff from the A Level maths courses would be a waste of time for kids who aren't choosing maths A level.

However, what really needs to be addressed is why our education in the UK is so shit in the first place.

Vicliz24 · 04/01/2023 11:43

IAmTheWalrus80 · 04/01/2023 11:31

He’s said he won’t even consider it unless the Tories win the next election.

Meanwhile, people are dying on trolleys in hospital corridors.

And here we are discussing it.

It’s the most transparent and embarrassing attempt at political distraction I can ever remember.

This

CaveMum · 04/01/2023 11:44

If it is implemented correctly (not a given considering this Government!), then it is a great idea. Maths isn't just about knowing Pythagoras, Algebra, etc, a lot of jobs these days require knowledge of statistics, data analysis, etc so strengthening knowledge of maths can only be a good thing.

Plenty of countries teach maths as standard to 18 so it's hardly "out of the box" thinking, and if we want our education system to continue to be considered highly in a world context then we need to keep up with other countries.

SingingSands · 04/01/2023 11:44

It's not a terrible idea. We do need young people who can work with numbers and data, not just professionally but personally- look at the number of people who don't understand money, loans, percentages, debt.

I'd not support another rigid qualification - nor the continued "upwards only" mentality of gaining A*** of ever more complex maths, but a more rounded teaching of numbers and how to apply them to everyday situations.

BUT given the government continually fails to attract, recruit and retain maths teachers I really don't see this happening. Agree that it does seem like a "dead cat" strategy.

ElephantInTheKitchen · 04/01/2023 11:44

JulieMarooley · 04/01/2023 11:28

I think a lot of people would benefit from learning maths more slowly and focussing only on the basics - numeracy, percentages, basic understanding of graphs and statistics, interest rates etc. I.e. Primary school maths, repeated until they understand it. I don’t think this would take until age 18.

This is, broadly speaking, what functional skills maths aims to achieve; it's often taught to adult learners, and sixth formers who have no realistic chance of passing a GCSE in maths. It's more practical maths (like percentages) and less of the quadratic equations.

Catspyjamas17 · 04/01/2023 11:45

It's not about making everyone understand pure maths, it's about developing functional numeracy, understanding interest rates, percentages, conversion rates and all those other day to day maths problems that people laugh about, say they don't understand and then have problems with

Most people have achieved that by age 14 and decided whether they want to go and do more complicated stuff because they enjoy maths. Let them get on with it and stop torturing the rest of us.

Nevermind31 · 04/01/2023 11:46

I come from a country where education is compulsory until 18, May that be A-levels or via an apprenticeship, business college or whatever.
you have to take maths, and a foreign language, as well as home language + relevant classes if studying for an apprenticeship.
Maths will be at a relevant level - so if you are learning to be a secretary it will not be advanced maths, but maths relevant to that job.
you are not able to pass your exams if you do not get a pass in these classes as well.
i think it’s a good thing - it achieves a much better level of basic education

catsonahottinroof · 04/01/2023 11:48

I first heard this policy being touted a month of so ago, but then they were proposing studying both English and maths until 18 - not sure why they've decided to just go for maths.
I don't agree with the policy, as what keeps some teens motivated is the thought that they can drop maths if and when they pass their GCSE. If they do bring it in, the best option would be to introduce a new qualification at level 3 but only worth half an A level or less. Maybe students could choose whether to do core maths, or the new qualification could be finance/economics/social science based (so not just maths but using maths in it).

lmnabc · 04/01/2023 11:48

I'm probably being thick but how can you make math compulsory to 18 when the leaving age is 16?

SingingSands · 04/01/2023 11:48

AnyRandomName · 04/01/2023 11:15

I remember once being in a shop and watching an approx 18yr old shop assistant who was unable to calculate 10% off prices. She just didn't understand % or even how to take that off the price once she'd worked out what 10% was.

So yes, I think that we could all do with a little more maths.

I worked in Asda as a student in the early 2000s. Our boss asked someone to reduce the Thomas the Tank Engine figures by 10%. Instead, he reduced them TO 10% of their original value. We were swamped by gleeful parents buying armloads of Thomas trains for 79p each!

ElephantInTheKitchen · 04/01/2023 11:48

I think most kids would be better off with a "life skills" course in the sixth form. It could include a heavy dose of personal finance - mortgages, pensions, budgeting for instance. It could also include things like learning to cook 5 basic budget meals (useful at university...), basic DIY, and those realistic dolls designed to cry and put teenagers off having babies.

MintyFreshOne · 04/01/2023 11:49

This is normal in other countries & shouldn’t be controversial in the least

bigbluebus · 04/01/2023 11:49

I haven't read what exactly he's proposing should be taught for an extra 2 years but my immediate thought on hearing the announcement was that if children haven't grasped the necessary basics of maths in 12 years of school, what the hell have they been teaching them?

ElephantInTheKitchen · 04/01/2023 11:50

lmnabc · 04/01/2023 11:48

I'm probably being thick but how can you make math compulsory to 18 when the leaving age is 16?

They changed it a few years ago - everyone has to be in some form of education or training (which can include an apprenticeship) until they're 18 now. You can't just leave school and get a normal job at 16 any more.