Do those who voted Tory not realise if acutely unwell they will need A&E as no equivalent in the private sector?

[Blondewithredlips]

Just that they will have the same problems accessing A&E and ambulances as others without private health insurance. And they voted for this?

The thread refers to a third of beds being occupied by those who are fit for discharge but no where to go. It strikes me therefore that we need convalescent homes.

It's interesting to read that the US Government (whether at Federal or State level) spends substantially more than any other government on healthcare, before you look at what people opt to pay through their insurance, yet many Americans claim to fear higher taxes brought on by state healthcare. The private healthcare providers are ripping the state off.

The UK is halfway through the OECD pack on healthcare expenditure, but well behind most countries that are actually comparable. That tells me that we do have some scope for increasing spending without breaking the Bank of England

amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/07/public-nhs-the-new-health-and-care-bill-alarm-bells-privatisation

www.opendemocracy.net/en/ournhs/nhs-opening-us-business-reassurances-are-demonstrably-false/

It is not about making it easier to do their jobs, it should be about effective, efficient and cost effective health care. If that means their job changes, is split between different roles, or ceases to exist altogether, then that is how it should be.

Thanks - I thought that the idea had been canned after Brexit.

I don't support labour so wrong again.

Also 0/10 for effort, originality, and effort.

My understanding is that Brexit paved the way, although I can’t remember how. By scrapping EU regulations, perhaps?

Imagine being a political party that can't win an election against one that had been performing so badly
Nhs not fit for purpose anymore , needs a huge overhaul
As nhs in scotland and wales doesn't fair much better both run by other parties
All of them are crap no credible party to vote that id the issue

I wouldn't be surprised!

Absolutely, people in general don’t seem to appreciate that a decent healthcare system will mean paying a proper amount, either through taxes or insurance. There is no magical route, and despite the false narrative that there are zillions of diversity managers twiddling their thumbs on six figure salaries, the NHS is good value for money for what we pay.

But the US style system is absolutely what the UK doesn’t need, which as you say is about the most inefficient system and delivers the highest infant mortality rate in the developed world per $ spend. If that doesn’t motivate people on a parenting site to investigate facts properly, I don’t know what will.

One of the benefits of the NHS system (and one of the reasons that the Tories have generally left it alone rather than ripping it up entirely) is that it's one of the cheapest systems possible. We save a fortune in admin by having one big system that everyone can use, no need for paperwork to confirm eligibility or for claiming back off of insurance companies. Means testing is horrendously expensive too, and you know the people the tabloids complain about who travel in from other parts of the world to get free treatment they're not technically entitled to? Well the costs involved with chasing that up are so vast that it's cheaper to just get on and treat them, so long as it's only a small number of people.

Unfortunately reforms like the Internal Market have undermined this simplicity and the economies of scale it brings.

Was there another bit on the ballot paper to fill in to claim your private health insurance if you voted conservative or is it automatic?

Anyway for those of us in Scotland, it is the SNP that have fucked it up being that it is a fully devolved service (though SNP supporters seem to forget this and not blame Glorious Leader Nicola)

"Fully devolved" is meaningless as the SNP don't have full control over their budget.

It's like me giving you £100 quid and telling you to cook a banquet for 20 people, then blaming you for not serving lobster, steak, and champagne. As long as Westminster keep the purse stings closed the blame lies
on their doorstep.

And anyway, NHS Scotland outperforms NHS England in most areas, does it not? Seems you should be grateful you're not at the mercy of NHS England tbh.

I’ve worked in the NHS and in the private sector, I can tell you that you can be laying in your private bed, after your private operation, with your paid for private surgeon looking after you, but if it all goes tits up and you need acute care an ambulance will be called and you will be shipped out to the NHS asap. The private sector don’t do critical care the same way the NHS does and they don’t like people dying there either!

This is so true. The NHS is not underfunded by international comparisons on gdp. It is bang on the average of rich developed nations. The issues are far deeper around culture within it and of people using it and their expectations, vested interests and empire building, waste within the systems, management and accountability and having to be risk adverse due to the legal framework it operates in, increasing demands as people live longer, more ability to prolong life with expensive drugs and interventions, health inflation, underfunding in social care outside the NHS resulting in worse health outcomes for the NHS. New diseases and the quick spread due to more travel and mixing.
Health systems will consume all the resources you provide. The challenge is to use them effectively and efficiently so you can to maximise the best health for our populations.

I don't think you have to have worked in either sector to understand that 🤔

the NHS would certainly would be in better shape with more funding but throwing money at the NHS is not the answer

the answer is to change how the NHS is funded and operates but then it’s no longer the NHS it’s a tier system

Labour will not be proposing that so it will have money thrown at it improve for a while and then back to poor service and outcomes but we should always be so grateful as it’s free at the point of service

Though you can hardly complain about budget if you decide to spend some of that £100 on your mates car and also ignore the fact you could have asked people to contribute to the cost of the meal.

A&E waiting time figures are worse in Scotland when you actually compare like for like.

You won’t be being looked after by your private surgeon - they will be doing their day job with the nhs. You will be looked after by a house doctor.

House doctor? The junior doctors have not been called that for years. There are no junior doctors in a private hospital, there is a registrar who calls your private consultant if needed. Not all private consultants do NHS work.

Most Consultants in private are NHS Consultants also. The “registrar” in the private hospital is usually what’s known as an RMO or registered medical officer, they are mostly foreign doctors waiting to get a training post in the NHS.

I personally think the figures for healthcare spending per capita are more revealing than spending as a percentage of GDP.

A tiny, rich country might spend a much lower percentage of GDP than a larger, poorer nation, but residents of the former might still enjoy excellent healthcare. The per capita figures can shed light on this by telling you how much is spent on average +per person+.

The UK’s closest comparators in terms of GDP, size, population and salary costs are probably France and Germany. They spend significantly more on healthcare per person than we do.

I think it’s obvious that the NHS isn’t coping on its current budget. If we never try funding it properly, how can we know how much this would improve health outcomes? More money could pay for more staff, which would reduce the pressure on existing staff and improve morale and staff retention. If all NHS staff stopped doing unpaid overtime, what do people think would happen?