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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Do those who voted Tory not realise if acutely unwell they will need A&E as no equivalent in the private sector?

172 replies

Blondewithredlips · 04/01/2023 07:26

Just that they will have the same problems accessing A&E and ambulances as others without private health insurance. And they voted for this?

OP posts:
SausageInCider · 04/01/2023 09:01

Alrighty then how much more money would you like to pump into the bloated, untouchable NHS?

it needs dismantling and rebuilding from the ground up - people need to realise that it’s misuse and mismanagement that has got it in the state it’s in. Problem is too many people buy into the narrative that every single person who works in the NHS is some sort of hero. As a result any whiff of reform is greeted by shouts of how they’re selling off our NHS, American healthcare, this is what the tories want, bla bla bla.

you either accept it’s a huge money pit that can’t cater for modern life anymore but keep pouring more in anyway, or you look for another solution.

if you think that “Tory voters” are happy with people dying for lack of ambulances, 12 hour waits outside a&e, dangerous levels of staffing, poor morale, nurses leaving in their droves - you must be really stupid and blinkered. Thinking there’s a better way for healthcare in this country doesn’t mean being happy with how things are now

Butitsnotfunnyisititsserious · 04/01/2023 09:01

Christmascracker0 · 04/01/2023 08:57

Scotland and Wales are also in the shit and our healthcare is fully devolved 🤷🏻‍♀️

I wonder what people who blame Tory will say about that.

FarmGirl78 · 04/01/2023 09:02

Why won't there be A&Es? I'm fairly certain New Cross Hospital in Wolverhampton has their A&E run by Virgin Healthcare? Privatisation doesn't mean existing NHS hospital sites will close and move to Spire Hospital sites (or equivalent). It means private companies will move to 'take over' services on the NHS sites. Why does privatisation mean no A&E? Am I being really thick?

MargaretMead · 04/01/2023 09:02

I used to have a comprehensive medical insurance as part of my employment in the healthcare industry, so have experienced both, in the UK and abroad.

There is no private A&E in the UK effectively. A&E is a service you need close by, whatever location you are in when you get sick. With the horrendous congestion in cities, a solitary private A&E facility can be inaccessible even to close by locations in an emergency.

You can’t always predict what will happen to your health as you age. Some people think that they will simply buy their way out of trouble, or that paying automatically means that the care or outcomes will be better, but it isn’t the case. There are generally higher clinical standards in the NHS, especially when the staff are not over stressed and under resourced. This is one of the reasons why former NHS staff are so valued in other countries.

If your case is more unusual or challenging (and you can’t always know this in advance), or you need access to the latest clinical trial drugs, you are nearly always better with an NHS department in a teaching hospital. I learned this the hard way by wasting four years on private consultations, paid for by insurance. If I’d toughed out the 14 month wait on the NHS rather than going private initially I would have been fixed much faster.

Finally, private hospitals where I am are struggling to recruit staff into all sorts of positions. Nursing care, post operative, was chaotic and generally very poor when a friend recently paid for an elective procedure, and the rooms were not clean enough.

Georgeskitchen · 04/01/2023 09:03

All research your information before you post, ie: how many A&E departments closed under labour. Our local one went in 2004

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 04/01/2023 09:03

There are multiple private Urgent Care Centres across London. Is the situation with A&E better in Scotland and Wales?

PFI was a shit show which is still having financial implications. Social care needs proper funding and reform. I wonder if some sort of intermediate convalescent provision is needed to reduce blocking of acute beds.

GP services need proper review to make the more accessible but people also have to take responsibility and turn up to appointments, not go to the GP for something that could be resolved by a pharmacist etc.

We need think about what we want the NHS to do in the future and recognise that we all have a part to play.

EnyoClytemnestra · 04/01/2023 09:04

ridiculoso82 · 04/01/2023 09:00

I honestly don’t think the OP was trying to fan flames

I think she honestly had just realised that private health doesn’t include a&e and thought was was making a big revelation to mumsnetters.

She has now realised that she was completely barking up the wrong tree and has embarrassed herself

You are more generous than me @ridiculoso82 !

perhaps I am just jaded and cynical (and old!)

ridiculoso82 · 04/01/2023 09:05

EnyoClytemnestra · 04/01/2023 09:04

You are more generous than me @ridiculoso82 !

perhaps I am just jaded and cynical (and old!)

Ultimately I think the OP is thick rather than inflammatory!

ridiculoso82 · 04/01/2023 09:06

Butitsnotfunnyisititsserious · 04/01/2023 09:01

I wonder what people who blame Tory will say about that.

Oh they ignore points like this on the ground it doesn’t fit with their world view

Dryandirriatble · 04/01/2023 09:07

The "wonder" of the Tory success (in holding onto power, nothing else) is that they've done such a number on relatively poor people. Loads of people who could never have private medical insurance still seem to think that the Conservatives are the best option for them, "it would be even worse under Labour"

Also, in terms of the very rich/governing classes, would they end up in/outside A&E for hours? I don't know how things would be managed for them, but I'm sure that wouldn't happen.

brusselsprout5 · 04/01/2023 09:09

Hoardasurass · 04/01/2023 07:34

You do realise that when the LABOUR government under Blair brought in ppi that everyone warned them that this would be the consequences 20+years down the line but they didn't care because it made them look good and knew that they could blame whomever was in power at the time.
BTW I'm not a tory voter and I'm not saying that austerity hasn't made things worse just let's lay the blame where it belongs ie with new labour and Blair/Brown

Haha do labour brought all these current problems ??? This is the craziest comment I've read today!!! How can you possibly believe this? Do your research! Biscuit

BadShepherd · 04/01/2023 09:09

@Dryandirriatble If you flash your Eton alumni card or Belvoir Hunt membership, you’re ushered in through the VIP door where you’ll be seen in 5 minutes by a tip consultant. It was all there in the manifesto.

Dryandirriatble · 04/01/2023 09:10

Even if you believe Labour started the problems, it's been 12 years.....

Greatly · 04/01/2023 09:11

Do you genuinely think all those who have voted Tory have private health insurance or are you just making sweeping statements?

I DIDN'T vote Tory but DO have private health insurance - but I'm not completely stupid and realise that A and E isn't covered 😂

Exhausteddog · 04/01/2023 09:11

I don't think there is a straightforward answer to the problems in the NHS.
There are of course some people who turn up to A and E with a cold, or call an ambulance because KFC has run out of chicken, but even without them I think the NHS would still struggle.

There are some people who waste NHS time/resources by not attending appointments, there are a great many others who miss appointments due to the NHS own admin inefficiencies.

There are admittedly a lot of people who have health issues due to unhealthy lifestyle choices. There are also a massive number if people who have health issues due to old age because they have lived to old age due to successful treatment of other illnesses/conditions.

Give more money to the NHS and it will be mismanaged or wasted? Potentially so but it also needs money to adequately pay existing staff and recruit and train more. (Although I can't see how working within the NHS is an appealing career choice at present)

Greatly · 04/01/2023 09:12

brusselsprout5 · 04/01/2023 09:09

Haha do labour brought all these current problems ??? This is the craziest comment I've read today!!! How can you possibly believe this? Do your research! Biscuit

Do you not realise what happened with PPI?

MichelleScarn · 04/01/2023 09:12

Yousee · 04/01/2023 08:20

I suppose Tory voters did vote to destroy the NHS in the same way that Labour voters support anti semitism and the eradication of women's rights.

Oh and labour voters all love an illegal war cos they all love oil!

Greatly · 04/01/2023 09:13

The NHS is struggling because it isn't fit for purpose any more. We are a very different population to the one in the 1950s.

Volkswagenitalia · 04/01/2023 09:14

I remember when Deborah James (Bowelbabe) was coming towards the end of her life and she had variceal hemorrhaging, so a huge emergency, she was told an ambulance would take 30 mins so her husband took her to hospital in the car. She spoke about this as if she were completely shocked that there might be a delay in an ambulance.

She had had the absolute best private healthcare throughout her cancer treatment, and had paid a lot of money for it, but when it came to the crunch she still needed A and E and the NHS (although she was still able to ring her oncologists direct mobile number from the hospital and get him to come and see her immediately!)

There are probably plenty of people the same. I have private healthcare and think about this quite a lot (have never voted Tory though!)

PhilCollinsFanGirl · 04/01/2023 09:15

Hoardasurass · 04/01/2023 07:34

You do realise that when the LABOUR government under Blair brought in ppi that everyone warned them that this would be the consequences 20+years down the line but they didn't care because it made them look good and knew that they could blame whomever was in power at the time.
BTW I'm not a tory voter and I'm not saying that austerity hasn't made things worse just let's lay the blame where it belongs ie with new labour and Blair/Brown

Legend! Sadly far too many people have forgotten "new labour" and the irrevocable damage they did to a country that had finally found its feet. Illegal war anyone?

Snowisfallinghere · 04/01/2023 09:15

So far on this thread, Tory-voting excuses for the state of the NHS have been:

  • too many fat people, smokers etc
  • it's Labour's fault
  • people who work for the NHS are not nice
  • the NHS is made for another era
  • the population is too large now
  • the system is no good and needs overhauling

Incidentally I agree with the last one but the Tories have had well over a decade to attempt this and they haven't managed it. Under Labour, NHS waiting times actually improved.

I'm sorry but there truly is no excuse for this. Ambulances take minutes to come in any other developed country, not hours. This is insane. The Tories have had their chance to fix it, they've fucked up big time, and if you keep voting for more of this, I honestly have no respect for you.

500 people a week dying. How can you live with yourselves?

MargaretMead · 04/01/2023 09:16

Oh yes, private ‘urgent care’ facilities.

One in the US discharged me with a notifiable infectious disease that they failed to diagnose. I flew home and potentially created more cases. The NHS diagnosed me correctly when I got home and sorted me out. I’m probably going to have to name change now as this is quite outing!

The NHS is known for clinical excellent. Value it and don’t lose it.

A few further points, privatised state provision, aka Virgin running NHS services, and private care are not the same.

And the majority of the UK population don’t live in London. London has a huge foreign population (visitors and residents who will have to pay for private health) compared to the rest. London has brilliant public transport but it has never and probably will never be matched outside where most live. Healthcare will be the same.

Idreamofnothing · 04/01/2023 09:16

Party politics needs taking out of the discussion and health and social care need a targeted cross party approach to fix it. We need to stop seeing it as one of the UKs major religions, accept it needs a full slate wipe, grit our teeth and get on with it. The staff aren't all virtuous deities, there is some right old dross hanging around that can't be got rid of.

Red, blue, yellow, green every single voter wants good health and social care. Trolling websites slagging off Tory voters just shows you up for being a dick head (and I'm not a Tory voter). Whinging and whining and shouting half baked ideas concocted from Facebook memes is also pointless. It doesn't get things fixed.

MarshaBradyo · 04/01/2023 09:17

ridiculoso82 · 04/01/2023 09:00

I honestly don’t think the OP was trying to fan flames

I think she honestly had just realised that private health doesn’t include a&e and thought was was making a big revelation to mumsnetters.

She has now realised that she was completely barking up the wrong tree and has embarrassed herself

Yeh you’re probably right

PhilCollinsFanGirl · 04/01/2023 09:18

Greatly · 04/01/2023 09:13

The NHS is struggling because it isn't fit for purpose any more. We are a very different population to the one in the 1950s.

Absolutely this!!! Why can no one see this?? Mental health didn't exist post war did it??? Now it dominates resources in the nhs.

Just the same as the welfare reform act is no longer fit for purpose! It was bought in to help impoverished families after a world war! Now it is feeding 3rd generation dossers and their families...

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