Divorce settlement and DD

[Newname50]

I’ve name changed as probably outing, I’m a long term user of Mumsnet.

Exh and I divorced 3 years ago. I offered to take a reduced settlement to avoid going to court. Ex and his solicitor insisted on the court route as they didn’t think the outcome would be a 50/50 split.

50/50 split was the outcome. House to be sold when DD is out of full time education at age 18.

So this time is fast approaching, she finishes college this summer.

DD is aware of the ruling, but not of all of the details.

It has clearly been playing in her mind. Her father has not sat her down and talked sensibly to her. He is pension age, has a decent civil service pension so income wise he is comfortable.
Nor has he started to look into what he can do accommodation wise. Realistically he would either buy a two bed terraced, or rent.

I have another 15-20 years to work, have a house with a mortgage. Ex resides in marital home, which is mortgage free.

DD has rung me tonight in hysterics. Saying it’s my fault that she will be homeless (!) as she will not live with me if her father cannot afford to buy a house big enough for the both of them. I am in no doubt that this will damage our relationship, which is absolute priority to me.

When I bought this house, I was self employed and my loan to value ratio was low. A family member offered to loan me a deposit which I accepted, with the plan that I will repay them when I have my settlement.

Last year, exh looked into equity release, and whilst this won’t be the full settlement, I am now considering accepting this in order to protect my relationship with DD.
I can use this plus a loan to repay family member the deposit.

I don’t know enough about equity release, what would happen when exh dies, would the house have to be sold then to repay the equity company?

Sorry this is long, any advice much appreciated.

Don’t give in to it, he is trying to manipulate/control the situation via your daughter. Stay strong and take your fair share.

Tell her that he chose to go to court when you had offered a lower settlement. This is what the court ordered. He has had years to prepare for this happening but has chosen not to. You have had to manage the financial consequences of the divorce and he has to do the same. You contributed to the mortgage and you are now entitled to your court ordered share of the property.
His failure to plan is not your responsibility - you are divorced remember.

Presumably he needs to give you half of the value of the house at the date of your DD’s birthday? So as long as he does this, does it matter how he gets the money? You need to ensure you no longer own half the house though, as you could be liable for negative equity in the future. So he needs to borrow the money somehow and pay you your half, then he’s bought you out and it needs to be his name solely on the deeds.

I don't think this is correct. The courts would enforce the original order so the ex would have to find alternative accommodation. If he has some savings and a pension there wouldn't be any question of being made homeless. He just needs to get organised and man up to the situation instead of emotionally blackmailing his DD and OP.

She's not going to be homeless, she just wants everything her way.

If you do the equity release, realistically in 5 years time she could easily leave home, and leave your ex sitting pretty in that house.

He could still have another 30 years in him.

Force the sale.

Equity release is a bad, bad idea. Most people think of it as using the property to release funds and you can live there until death, however the terms are usually that you can live there until death or if it needs to be sold.

MIL did it age 64 (without telling anyone) and received 60k on a house that was worth around 200k at the time. 10 years later her mobility issues became so significant she couldn’t manage stairs and needed to trade down to an apartment or bungalow. In the meantime the financial crash happened and house prices fell. The accrued interest and house price drop meant everything went to the finance company. She went from owning her own house mortgage free to being effectively homeless for a paltry 60 grand and had to move in with her daughter. So it could potentially be a very bad financial decision for your ex husband too.

If he has a civil service pension did he get a lump sum at retirement which the courts assumed he would use to buy a house. There is no way that the courts would have left him in this position. If he has made no attempt to buy you out then he is at fault.

it really isn’t your problem. Can you instruct an estate agent and solicitor to start the process?

Your settlement is fuck all to do with DD, frankly.

No no no no no
Equity release is an awful idea - like lots of other posters have said the whole house will go to the company so your DD loses again (on inheritance etc)
You say he has a civil service pension, so, he sells the house and with his 50% buys another house, and if needs be gets a mortgage to pay it off (he can get a mortgage on a pension)
He is playing the pauper to your DD when, in my opinion, she needs to be told the truth and if that means you sit down with her and go through the court order then so be it, she will eventually understand that you are not the bad one.
Please don't lose out because he is a manipulative fucker and is using your DD to get what he wants...to screw you over and your DD when he dies and leaves her naff all.

You need to force the sale. Your dd will likely leave home in the next couple of years.

Your ex has had years to plan for this.

If the house is 'only' worth £160k, presumably it is a fairly cheap area and the OPs house corresponds to that. As such if he has £80k he may be able to get something.

Don't ever do equity release. It's a terrible idea, should only be done as an absolute last resort and even then, if it really, truly is your best option, a lot of things have gone wrong already.

Ask your daughter to sit down with you so you can explain properly what the financial situation is and why this isn't an option. I think a lot of people really overestimate an 18 year oldest ability to understand this sort of thing by osmosis. Try not to be patronising or talk down to her...address her as an equal as you do it and don't shut her down with "now I've had my say, I don't want to talk about it any more". And don't bad mouth her dad, twat as he is.

She'll need some time to absorb it but this behaviour probably comes from feeling disregarded, so make sure she feels heard and respected. But don't agree to his godawful demand. It's ruinous.

And yes...why wouldn't there be room for her with him in a two-bedroom house?

she will not live with me if her father cannot afford to buy a house big enough for the both of them.

That is her choice.

If your ex is in a mortgage free house surely that is down to you?

Don't let that be for nothing!

So I'm thinking that you left & set up own your own & your daughter hasn't forgiven you?

If that's right & that's her stance then just giving in to her probably won't change that-she'll just take as she thinks she's entitled to it.

Hi OP I think you are getting some really sensible advice and answers on this thread. I wonder if it would be worth showing DD to read with out you so she has time to process your side of the story? I'm sure discussions with her around this are heightened emotionally as you are both invested in this situation and family. Sounds like your Ex has been drip feeding his own point of view to your DD for a long time. Good Luck with this situation.

Your dd needs to wind her neck in. Lay the facts bare for her and make it clear that you're no longer financially resppnsible for her dad and that it's his responsibility to find a home for himself and if he wants dd to live there her too. Make it clear thay you're having this conversation once then it's none of her business. Maybe also make clear that she'll be an adult soon and as such neither you or her dad are obliged to provide her with a home and you're definitely not obliged to provide her with the home that she demands. Politely tell her to grow up. She will do just that one day and apologise for how she's talked to you but she probably won't do this if you pander to her. She's nearly an adult. Time to look after yourself. Don't give up a penny for her or dad's benefit. Neither will thank you for it

Equity release is a terrible idea.

My advice:

1. Take a deep breath. Your DD has obviously only just heard the full details and is reacting emotionally. Give her a few days to process and let the emotions settle before you attempt to speak with her. You have more chance of what you say being heard.
2. Absolutely no to the equity release. Don’t you make a knee-jerk emotional decision now that will leave you far poorer.
3. Depending on how your daughter is when she calms down (she might see this more fairly, she might be a bit excited for her own independence, or she still might still blame you), it sounds as though you will have to speak with het about the settlement. Don’t go into too much detail as to contributions etc - it gives her a chance to find points to argue back or makes her think she has a say in it. The points to drive home are that an extremely experienced Judge looked at all the material and made this decision, which is fair at law. She may think after hearing her father’s side that it isn’t fair. However, she has to accept that an experience Judge who knows more about the law than her decided this. Secondly, it wasn’t appealed. Therefore both parties - you and your ex - agreed (on some level) that the result was fair and they weren’t going to challenge it further. This means she has to accept two things - that this result IS fair, even if she doesn’t think so, and secondly that if someone is telling her it isn’t, then that person is trying to emotionally manipulate her. If you’ve never discussed this before, you might use an example from her own life where she is in your shoes as to the emotional manipulation.

If she is ready to hear it, you may then say, what does the person asking you to believe this have to gain from this situation vs the loser, and see if she can point to the fact that your ex will continue to live rent-free in the bigger house. Vs you have had to do what ex now does, it’s just you had to do it 3 years earlier.

Baby steps. Remember this means she is losing her home, and I am sure in an unstable divorce having the same bedroom/house did alot to help steady her. Hopefully you can also help her see that her room at your place is now equally
a home and/or that at 18, and exciting adventure awaits for her in new places and she can jump off out of both homes and into an exciting life of her own.

Yup. This was my understanding too. Didn’t require 30 years in financial services to figure it out IMO

Stop being manipulated. Sell the house. He will manage and she will adapt.

So house is 160k, I'll assume its at least a 2 bed, so he would likely get another 2 bed for a very similar amount, possibly lower amount for a smaller place. So lets say he could get something for 140k, is that realisitic?
He has 80k to put down once house is sold, so thats a hefty deposit. If he has a good pension, usually you can draw lump sums from those, so that could be an option for him to add further cash towards the house purchase. And not sure if he would get any type of mortgage at all, but he may be able to get a 7 year mortgage to top up the rest.

Or, he sells the house and rents something until he figures out his best position buying wise, or until something affordable comes on the market - such as a 1 bed (or very small 2 bed) when dd moves out - which may be as soon as 3-4 years time depending on her circumstances.

Or he rents for 3-4 years and if dd goes down the employment route as opposed to uni, she could take a small mortgage using his 80k deposit to purchase something, as assuming on his death she will inherit the house anyway.

But end of the day, she won't be homeless and neither will he. She can stay with you and he can rent.

I’m no expert on divorce but whatever you do, don’t consent to equity release. The only winners are the equity release companies.

My MIL did equity release 10 years before she died and released about £20k from a £140k property. When she died she owed more than double this - and the house was worth less. DH was very lucky to receive any inheritance at all - which was by no means something he felt entitled to but MIL was very keen to leave the property to him and I think would have been quite shocked at how little was left after the equity release.

Under the circumstances, she would have been much better off downsizing and buying a retirement flat or other suitable property.

This. It’s his business how he raises the money. As long as you get the amount decreed by the court order it doesn’t matter how he gets it.

Completely agree with all the advice here OP- your ex will absolutely have had a lump sum with his pension so may well be sitting on a nice little nest egg he doesn't want to share. I understand that DD wants to continue to live in her childhood home, and 18 is still an age of raging emotions, but the failure to plan for that to happen is your ex not yours. Seems like your ex is still trying to create a low settlement for you as well as poisoning your relationship- thank goodness you got out !

Don't take less than your 50%. You are already at a disadvantage that the house may have now gone down in value below where it was 3 years ago. I assume he has until June/July. In the summer you either need to sell or he buys you out of your half.

Perhaps you could suggest to DD that she get a job and and then her and her father get a mortgage between them to raise the 50% to buy you out. If she was to earn £20k a year she may get a mortgage of £60k and then your ex has to find £20k, or perhaps under those circumstances you'd be willing to accept £10k less upfront as long as she gave you an extra £200 a month / or £1000 a year for the next 10 years. She would then of course have to stay living with her father for the next 25 years. Would that work for her? Or would she rather be independent?

I suspect your ex knows that your relationship with your daughter is a source of anxiety for you and he feels confident you would fold if you thought it would keep her on side. This is why he is using her to manipulate you now. You must not capitulate. If you do, it will only protect your relationship until the next time 'poor Dad' uses her for his next financial wishlist. Don't negotiate with terrorists.

Give her a factual account of the divorce arrangements as you have here and then step back. If there is an impact on your relationship it will be temporary.