Not to see in-laws over this

[atsoftplay]

I have been married coming up to 9 years and have a 3 month baby.
When I met dh his sister was incredibly hostile to me and has never accepted me, after years of her unfriendliness which has got worse since ds was born I decided I didn't need her in my life and would go no contact.
However here's the predicament, dh parents won't see me unless I see his sister as they feel I'm excluding her and they come as a family or not at all and dh won't see his DP without me as he says we come as a family too or not at all.

I now feel it's down to me to tolerate his sister so he can have a relationship with his DP although he says he'd happily go no contact if I don't want to see them which makes me feel guilty that it's all down to me.
I genuinely don't wish to have a relationship with his sister but nor do I want to be the reason they don't have contact either which has devastated his sister but dh isn't bothered because he can see how she treats me.
So aibu to have no contact with sil despite the consequences for the rest of the family I have suggested dh see them without me but he won't budge saying if I don't want to go WE won't. Battling with conscience here.

Their choice. Don't be bullied. Your SIL has been nasty, sounds toxic, and your husband has your back, as he should. If his parents are trying to pressure him and he's not caving, good for him! THat's on them, not you two. Stand firm.

Happy New Year. Think how much nicer it will be if you drop the rope.

Superb @KettrickenSmiled 👌

if you hear direct for the sister that she understands and regrets the hurt she has caused and that she genuinely asks for forgiveness and wants to change and have a positive relationship then it would be the right thing to do to give her a chance to demonstrate that she is serious (some kind of setup where you have a backup plan for immediate exit if that doesn't happen)

but if the parents are just asking you to accept being treated horribly, then nope. they are asking your DH to choose between them and you, and the whole point of marriage is that you choose each other over your parents so it's not a hard choice to make, but it's them forcing it, not you.

It’s ironic that you’ve concluded that this all comes down to you, when in reality you haven’t any control over how any of these people behave.

Treat your dh like the grown up that he is and let him navigate his own family relationships. Imo it’s best to stay out of these things anyway because blood relationships are always more nuanced and complex.

If he wants to go no contact that’s his business. If he changes his mind in a week or a year, that’s also for him to decide. The consequences are his to manage.

I don’t really understand the benefit of great sweeping declarations and manifestos. It’s much easier to just make a decision and quietly go your own way.
I won’t be coming to that.
That doesn’t work for me.
No thank you, I’d rather not.

Its words rather than actions that are feeding all this drama.

@atsoftplay you cannot live your life based on ultimatums issued by your PIL - that is a road to madness.

What you can do is life your life as you see fit. It is CLEARLY completely reasonable of you to continue to be NC with your SIL. If your PIL and any other Tom, Dick or Harry cuts you off as a result then so be it - they have the right to choose as they see fit just as you do. Their choices are NOT on you.

Honestly, I'd be relieved if they decided to cut you out as a result of this as they sound completely dysfunctional and I have no time/patience for that kind of nonsense.

Stick to your stance here.

You do not want contact with your SIL.
Your DH’s parents won’t see you unless their daughter is there also.
Your DH won’t see his parents without you being there.
Your SIL is unpleasant to you.

All mature adults, well able to make their own decisions and accept the consequences. You have not prevented your DH from visiting his parents, he has made that decision himself.

Thank you for all the replies, a bit of perspective is just what I needed.

Isn't it?!

Not my own work I hasten to add ...

that's how she is

Such a pathetic excuse for poor behaviour. She will never change because no-one challenges it.

She sounds awful and I would definitely go NC with her. Do the parents know exactly what she messaged to your DH @atsoftplay?

I think they need to know exactly what she is like and get their heads out of the sand. Although it sounds to me like they are afraid of her.

On the bright side, it makes a refreshing change to see a thread where the husband has his wife's back.

I’m Not so sure DH is “lovely”.
he has a sister problem. His sister is sending deliberately provocative messages to him. What is he doing to tell his sister, that whilst he loves her, he does not want to hear those messages, read those messages and it is down to him and his sister to get to a point where they resolve whatever it is between them that means she has no boundaries in saying stuff about his loved ones that is nasty, unpleasant etc
he needs to call her out. Not the OP, not his parents (nowt to do with them , they’re just trying to prevent the NC shit)

Until DP does this , he is giving permission for his sister to keep on doing it. Going NC is not going to do anything accept punish him, his parents etc. a marriage will struggle if one partner has to effectively NC their own family, including members that haven’t done anything wrong, to keep his partner “happy”.

NC on MN is seen as a right, a badge of honour, a “I’m protecting myself” . In practice, unless there is actual abuse (vs sending stupid childish spiteful emails) , then it helps no one. It makes things worse. It causes huge distress and has impacts on other members of the family. It is actually hugely controlling behaviour and is partly done to lash out. Fair enough the OP not being with SIL, BUT that should,d be temporary, until her DP has worked through this with his sister and made her realise that he has boundaries, and she is making herself less lovable, less likeable, and looking pretty foolish to continue this campaign. He needs to tell her he will not listen anymore - which he is and that is where the problem is. Him going Nc with his family to appease the OP is simply avoiding his responsisiblity to sort this out properly with his sister.

nope , not lovely. Emotional immature. Irresponsible

He sounds like a rare find

He really does :)

So she just starts randomly shouting and swearing during a family get-together? Does she have Tourettes? It sounds like there's more to this dynamic than you say here.

OP I suggest you work out what you are aiming for. Do you want to have a better relationship with your husband's family, so that your children can see and get to know them? Or are you determined to win on the issue of the sister-in-law at all costs?
Would you consider doing everything you can to get together with his parents only, or are you secretly pleased he's holding out and choosing you over them?

Only you can decide. Just check yourself on what your eventual aim is, rather than focusing on why you feel justified in the action you're taking.

You definitely have a DH problem. Why on earth can't he see his parents with out you?
Either he's too pathetic to organise stuff himself or he's happy not to see then and let it look all your fault.
This really doesnt have to be complicated.
You don't need to see his family. Then it is, completely his decision whether he does or not.

My in-laws are like this, they come as a four with BIL and SIL. Can't visit in-laws and not see BIL family too. Really weird IMO. My in-laws have been hostile to me over the years but until recently I've let it lie. They all let us down big time this past year and we had a big falling out over it. Blatant favouritism which they've never denied. Think BIL never making the effort to visit us, in laws paying for their wedding but not wanting to help with ours, in laws paying for their holidays, moving to live close to them etc.

You'll be painted as the bad guy because you've rocked the boat by standing up to them. Their ultimatum is ridiculous. You either stand your ground or give into MIL's ultimatum. Or perhaps, forget your MIL demands, and speak with SIL like adults to see if your relationship is salvageable?

100% this.

Let your DH take the lead here. If he is happy to cease contact, then go with that.

I wouldn't 'reward' their behaviour and terms and conditions by actually adhering to them. Better to set your own terms and conditions on them having a relationship with your DH, you and any and all children you may have.

Listen to your partner. This isn't even really about you, it's about her and her behaviour and her parents enabling and it's been like that forever. Do you want them to treat your DC in the same way? Because it sounds very likely they will.

Cut them off and don't look back. What they think or say about you after that won't matter because you'll have blocked them.

How far do you live from the parents and sister? How big a deal is this? Are you seeing them every day?

Exactly this. Have you or, more especially, DH pointed this out to them?
You are allowed a relationship with your PIL’s without her input.

Has your dh ever spoken to his sister about her behaviour and her impact?

I doubt he'd get a word in edge ways, she would get defensive and start a slagging match if anyone tried to challenge her.

'Swearing shouting and name calling, which once she calms down we're expected to forget because that's just how she is.
PIl won't hear a word against her so dh can't talk to them about it'

Exact same situation here except it's my MIL who acts like this. FIL enables her bad behaviour, expecting everyone to bow down to them. It's so difficult, wish I had answers too

Hats off to your husband for having your back
If you've put up with SIL being vile towards you for this long, you really shouldn't have to endure it any more
She clearly is never going to change
If PIL are all in or nothing that's their choice
Personally wouldn't put myself through that kind of stress or toxic behaviour

OP this shouldn’t be put on you at all. Most unfair.
Its your husband’s responsibility to communicate properly with his sister and also with his parents. There is clear evidence of abusive name calling and cursing over a long period of time so your DH has every reason to not want his DC and DW subject to that.
He must again make it super clear to his family that he will no longer tolerate his sister’s bad behaviour nor his parents’ unwillingness to support you, and at the same time giving them very clear guidelines about his boundaries. He must say this is the last chance for her to conduct herself nicely and give clear consequences so that she has no doubt about where she stands.
It’s sad he hasn’t done this before now.
He should do this without involving you at all so that they see that none of it is your decision. Then he should follow through properly so that when you do all meet up again, if she crosses HIS red line, HE must react accordingly, making its clear that it’s HIS decision for you all to leave.

Sorry posted too soon. Has anyone ever told the parents about the messages she sent to her brother. DH is the one to solve this, he should tell his parents and sister you’ve done nothing wrong, the fault lies with his sister and her jealousy of you and your relationship with her brother.

You can only be open about your wants and needs - those around you can then make their choice. If you choose not to see her - then your DH can make his decision from there - his choice (although it’s nice he’s supporting you)

Next is seeing parents - you can invite them to lunch or a day trip etc - they can choose to come or not. That’s on them.