There is no god

[OldKingCole]

Inspired by another thread … I was surprised by the level of atheism professed … as I always though I was in a tiny, tiny minority.
would be interested to see the MN response.

IABU - there is a god
IANBU - there is no god

Everyone should treat others with respect, regardless of who they are.

Homophobes are not deserving of respect.

Gay men are statistically less likely to have genital herpes and genital warts (both stds) than straight men.

I shuddered when you said you think homosexuality should be illegal and compared it with incest.

@ValK I require lifelong treatment using medical intervention. My DC2 also does. Neither are lifestyle related. Are we not concerning then? If you look at it across the piece, lots of people require lifelong medical treatment because of 'lifestyle' - but you aren't concerned about the costs they cause the NHS, because they are not gay...

I consider you as homophobic. And vile.

Patriarchal culture in a lot of the African continent is the leading cause of high levels of HIV among women. Men are allowed to sleep around (heterosexually), women are not. Women are the victims because their chance of contracting STDs is higher. But that's OK because the people involved are not gay, even though the actual numbers, and their medical needs and costs, are much higher. Maybe this is where we should be directing our concerns instead of frothing about gay people.

@ShodanLives I agree that wanting homosexuality to be illegal is vile.

*For the first time in a decade, the number of new HIV diagnoses among heterosexuals is higher than for gay and bisexual men, according to new figures for England from the UK Health Security Agency.

Half of all new HIV diagnoses were in heterosexuals (49%) in England in 2020, compared to 45% in gay and bisexual men.*

Yes I would say its not a specific concern for gay people any more it's a generalised concern

I honestly thought we’d moved on from the dark age opinion of being gay = promiscuous, diseased, unworthy of respect.

I require lifelong treatment to control a disease otherwise I would die. I'm in a hetrosexual relationship. I need a significant amount of medical help which had included hospitalisation, regular reviews, daily medication, and special intervention if I get ill.

Does that mean asthmatics are on a par with those who commit incest as well?

I haven't read much more than the first few pages of this thread but I simply wanted to point out that the reason for the demographic skewing here on MN isn't simply due to the overall level of education.

It's far more a question of intellectual vanity. MN draws not only people who are intelligent but those who are intelligent and overly proud of a virtue which they haven't had to attain through cpncerted effort.
They are sufficiently proud of their intelligence thar they gather here; more intent on winning arguments than actually being right or finding the truth of any given matter.

As for Mr Fry, well I doubt whether he could possibly conceive of anything more important than himself, be that God or another being entirely.

We have been told for so long than the intelligent people are, overwhelmingly atheist that it more or less becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

It is laid bare on this forum and probably others where intelligent people gather to argue with one another to quite a spectacular degree.

We have and ultimately the majority if the Christian Church is now accepting of same sex marriage and all of the Christian Church preaches showing respect and kindness to gay people.

But some Christians people like to use it as an excuse to come out with bigoted disrespectful opinions and pretend it's religious concern, or concern about population levels, or concern about STDs.

(I'm only mentioning Christianity here because 2 of the most freverent homophobic posters are blaming the bible for it)

Just to stop any accusations of religious zealotry which may be incoming on the back of my last post...

I believe in the teachings of Jesus so far as we can know them. I do not ascribe to any particular denomination as I belive they have largely bastardised his teachings for their own/patriarchal/societal gains.

But I very much try to live my life by his teachings and the way in which he reportedly conducted himself. I fall short more often than not but I believe them to have been instructive of living in a good, kind and moral way.

I simply do not understand why some people feel so threatened by others' sexuality: an issue which doesn't affect them in the slightest.

If you don't want to have sex with a same-sex partner, then don't. It's that simple. This is the point at which your involvement and investment with what goes on between consensual adults in their own private relationships, ends.

In terms of gay rights, LGB people have never wanted or campaigned for anything - the legal rights to marriage of a partner of their choice and to order their affairs - that others have always taken completely for granted.

It affects absolutely no one else. No one has the right to tell anyone else who to love.

@Leemoe a lot of atheists also live by those teachings.

Of course, I was more of an agnostic myself when I first adopted them. I went to a faith school and they were very heavy on the teachings of Jesus and they made sense to me even as a child.

It was only as an adult, learning about who Jesus of Nazareth actually was, how he lived and what he thought that I began to presume that he had something of the divine about him that could not be explained away by simple human nature.

In much the same way that I came to the conclusion that the, mainly and increasingly obviously oragnised evil in this world similarly cannot be explained away by human nature either.

Why are you conflating The bible and religion?
The bible hasn't been updated.
The bible clearly states what fornication is and who is in that group.
Those passages have never changed.

I wonder what the HIV rate is for married people who have only had sex with their partners?

The translations of the bible have changed as already shown on this thread.

I would imagine the HIV rates for married people who have only had sex with their partners are identical whether they are in a small sex or mixed sex marriage. I'm not sure what your point is here? Except of course for your assertations that gay people cannot be faithful even when they are in a relationship.

I wonder what the HIV rate is for married people who have only had sex with their partners?

Lower, but not zero. Because people cheat. Even religious ones. I don't think anyone on this thread has advocatted for infidelity.

I’ve actually been thinking about this. I really think the humanists and Skeptics are a salutary lesson to us all as to what happens when all your attentions are focused on criticizing another group rather than yourself and your own ideas.

I’ve spent a lot of time in Christian and a humanist and Skeptic groups in my life. And honestly, the Humanist and Skeptic ones were just about laughing at and scorning others, rather than critically examining their own beliefs. The Christian groups actually did spend time questioning their own beliefs.

So although on the surface it is astonishing that humanists and skeptics adopted gender identity ideology, it isn’t. Because they never were critical thinkers or rationalists. They never spent time developing those skills. They never spent time in critical self- reflection; why bother when the entire identity of you and your group is tied up with being right and clever, so of course you are never wrong. So they were actually, subconsciously training themselves to be ready to fall for the next big faith based scam.

I once read that the people who fall for financial scams are often well educated. They fall for them because they think they are too clever to be scammed.

I think the same happened with the Humanists and Skeptics.

Its a real lesson for all of us to keep applying critical analysis to our own thinking.

'I wonder what the HIV rate is for married people who have only had sex with their partners?'

Low or no existent I expect, but that goes for lesbians, gay men, heterosexual couples.
To contract STI's you have to have unprotected sex with someone who has one - that's how it works.