There is no god

[OldKingCole]

Inspired by another thread … I was surprised by the level of atheism professed … as I always though I was in a tiny, tiny minority.
would be interested to see the MN response.

IABU - there is a god
IANBU - there is no god

@Againstmachine as a Christian, I am convinced of the God of the Bible, God, Jesus, Holy Spirit.

@XDownwiththissortofthingX that's a good point. I suppose this is more of a question for someone who is trying to work out if they believe in God, and if so, what God is really like.

Because I think hope and faith are all we have.

@38woman What makes you think that atheists do not have hope and faith? Of course we do. We have faith in the goodness of humanity. We acknowledge that there are bad people, but the majority of us are actually pretty good. We have hope that if we pull together, we can make the world a better place for everyone irrespective of belief, gender, race and all the other things people like to use to divide us. We acknowledge the beauty of the world we live in.

We just don't need a deity to explain it all. It is, we accept it. I for one am content with not having all the answers.

But do less people believe in god because people/society no longer observe the day of rest? Sundays (or Saturdays in other other cultures) was a day dedicated to faith.

I don’t think people who say ‘there is no god’ have necessarily given god enough thought, time and headspace. All god asked for was one day out of seven.

Faith is important for individuals, community spirit and society in general.

Ending religion is a bad idea, says Richard Dawkins “Richard Dawkins said that being watched appeared to stop people from acting dishonestly“

‘What makes you think that atheists do not have hope and faith?’

This kind of thing pisses me off about some Christian’s- this assumption that they have hope, faith charity etc via their churches and the rest of us are selfish and godless.
its bullshit.
I’m pretty sure that if you listed the awful things about Christianity ( bigotry, homophobia, paedophile priests and vicars, abuse of power, corruption, abuse of the vulnerable, theft, religious wars and conflict, subjugation of woman, misogyny and on and on) versus the good, the bad would far out way the good.
You don’t have to believe in god to be community minded, kind, charitable, living, hopeful, generous.

@Rollin the believers who think that we atheists must all be miserable, selfish awful people are the ones I find unbearably arrogant. Fortunately none of my theist friends hold this view.

@pointythings Agree. I marvel at how much the human race has progressed over the time period since the fable of Jesus was created. In those days and further on still we were absolute savages compared to today (there are still plenty among us though). The progress in medicine, technology, standards of living etc. Of course this has not been shared equally as yet and we need a massive progression in understanding the human psyche which is slowly starting with being more open about mental health but our minds are amazing and I take my faith and hope from that.

Hope and faith in what? What is it that Christian’s have hope in that atheists don’t or can’t?

‘But do less people believe in god because people/society no longer observe the day of rest?’

it’s for sod all about enforcing a ‘day of rest’— it was the Trade Unions that got us time off from work, not vicars.
Churches and religion have not adapted with modern life and society at the same pace. It’s a patriarchal system in a world where women are demanding equality. No-one really believes that god doesn’t want a female archbishop, do they?
what about getting married before having kids? That’s still ‘wrong’ isn’t it?

what about telling people in countries where HIV is rife that using condoms is a sin?

What about watching people suffer, struggle to survive while you represent a church that owns huge amounts of £££ and half the land in England?

Or preaching that being gay is a sin, when people have gay sons or daughters, gay grandchildren.

if religion isn’t relevant to peoples lives then why should anyone believe?

I once had this discussion with someone at work , he told me I was going to hell because I hadn't been Christened, be couldn't get his head round it when I told him I don't believe in hell.

When you say god have us a perfect world, what do you mean? Serious question as I don’t know what you mean by it.

But is it more a case that progress in medicine, technology, standards of living etc. have also given a false sense of security leading us to all to believe we’re more civilised than we actually are and above all that god stuff now?

2020 was an eye opener for me. The whole world practically shut down. And we fought over toilet paper, like animals competing over resources.

But is it more a case that progress in medicine, technology, standards of living etc. have also given a false sense of security leading us to all to believe we’re more civilised than we actually are and above all that god stuff now?

2020 was an eye opener for me. The whole world practically shut down. And we fought over toilet paper, like animals competing over resources. I think it exposed how vulnerable our civilisation is and how much we take for granted.

That should read ‘gave’ not have.

@Inspecto I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but I do think we are more civilised in many ways. We aren't perfect and the pandemic uncovered many of our imperfections, but compared to life in Biblical times we are definitely more civilised. Some of that was accomplished by people of faith (the abolition of slavery is an example), but other things were accomplished by secular movements (women's rights, marriage equality, legalising homosexuality). This latter group of rights is actually under threat from the religious - hence some of the strong feelings on threads like these.

@Rollin ”‘But do less people believe in god because people/society no longer observe the day of rest?’

it’s for sod all about enforcing a ‘day of rest’— it was the Trade Unions that got us time off from work, not vicars.”

What?! Have you got a source? Are you thinking post industrial revolution?

That’s the first I’ve heard that argument.

What about the tradition of the Sabbath that predates trade unions? In the Old Testament God there’s something about dedicating one day to god. The day of rest.

Hitchens said it best…

I see what you mean. Religion is a patriarchy, but what do you think it is? Why is it not a matriarchy?

*why

I was brought up by militant atheists. As in, my father wouldn't go to a wedding if it was held in a church.

I am in my 30s now and I would say I now have faith, in that I believe in God. I don't know who or what God is exactly, I don't believe they are all powerful, I don't have any connection to any particular religion, but I chat to God, sometimes in church, and I find that a helpful and comforting thing. Both religious and non religious people seem to have a problem with that and I'm not sure why, so I keep it largely to myself.

Christianity has always hated women, they even got rid of the divine feminine (Sophia) that exists in judaism and renamed it the Holy Spirit to try and keep women subjugated.

Before Judaism, and even in the early centuries of Judaism even the jewish people often worshipped the variety of gods and goddesses that they worshiped prior to Moses (e.g. Asherah as per the Asherah poles mentioned in the bible).

I don't understand anyone worshipping outdated sexist nonsense.
It was man made hypocritical rubbish to keep the masses under control.
Hellfire and brimstone etc.
Let me see.....the laundries run by nuns, well we all know how that turned out.
Blokes pissing their wages away before coming home and battering their wives and kids senseless, well that's ok, a quick confession and all is forgiven.
Unmarried mother's thrown into asylums for the sin of having a child outside marriage, no mention of the father walking away without so much as a stain on his character.
Those same children being labelled as bastards and being denied what a child born in wedlock would be given as a right.
The pope telling women to pump out kids until their bodies are broken and they're in poverty while he sits well fed in luxury.
Paedophile priests and vicar's running off with parishioners.
All, plus more in the name of an imaginary bloke.
Then people wonder why church attendance is falling and more people disbelieve than do.

@ValK ”Most people are not naturally good, most people are selfish, petty and callous.”

This is very true.

I think Christianity can feel uncomfortable when we’re told we are all sinners - and needed Jesus to save us. I found that unsettling. But sin means to fall short - and we all fall short. We just don’t like to admit it.

I also think civilised society shields and masks deeper human nature. As above, that shield and mask fell during 2020 when civilised societies were fighting over toilet roll like animals fighting for resources.

It was very funny that we fought over loo rolls, but very revealing of something deeper going on too - toilet roll represented a cushioned civilised society. We didn’t always use soft quilted tissue paper…

How can there not be?
The wonder of having faith is the peace that you receive.
Sermon over. May God bless you all!