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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To find Jordan Peterson...

247 replies

pompous · 31/12/2022 10:24

Quite attractive? I'm a 30 year old woman so he is a little out of my usual age range but there's something about him I find really attractive. Maybe it's an attraction due to how clever the man is, I'm not sure. I can't be alone in this?

OP posts:
WilsonMilson · 02/01/2023 15:57

Absolutely adore that man! YANBU at all.

Notimeforaname · 02/01/2023 16:24

He says medicine is female dominated, conveniently ignoring the low paid jobs are the ones dominated by women - same with education.

Was that the same interview where he was saying one of the highest paid nursing ranks is in anesthesia but its overwhelming men who go for that role? I can't remember what the research showed about why it was that way but I do remember it was interesting..

MalagaNights · 02/01/2023 16:34

He's not thick or misogynistic 🤣🤣🤣 and using these as insults to attack him just make anyone look ignorant and simplistic.

He's a brilliant psychologist. Was a professor and has worked at prestige universities such as Harvard. He's highly regarded in his field.

He's also a clinician and worked directly with people in therapy.

He's studied authoritarian regimes and psychology extensively.

He's very brave and spoke out against compelled speech when few academics would do so.

He's inspired many people to improve their lives including me. His message of responsibility is not aimed at young men but resonates with them.

The enforced monogamy comments refer to marriage and the fact that marriage and responsibility calm young men. Anyone who thinks he's suggesting women should be forced to marry men they don't want to is, frankly... being a bit thick.

I think he has a brilliant mind, deep knowledge and I've learned so much from him and I'd encourage all young men and women to listen to him and think deeply about what he says.

I wouldn't shag him though.
Too intense for me.
And the meat thing is weird.

yadaya · 02/01/2023 16:44

I think he has a brilliant mind, deep knowledge and I've learned so much from him and I'd encourage all young men and women to listen to him and think deeply about what he says.

I've listened to him - I still don't like him or agree with him. Is that okay?

People can disagree with people, even those who are considered intelligent.

MalagaNights · 02/01/2023 16:51

Of course not liking him or disagreeing with him is ok.

Saying he's 'thick' however is just laughable.

WavingCatpaw · 02/01/2023 17:05

Notimeforaname · 31/12/2022 15:01

I think he's brilliant. Hes helped change my life, at home but especially at work.

I hated him at first when I heard clips my partner would play in the background about 5 or 6 years ago.
Fell for the shocking quotes and snippets taken out of context. Took the time to really listen to him and read up on him and as I said he's helped my life in so many ways and opened my mind to so many things.
People treat me differently now based on how much more assertive I've become the difference in remarkable.

Some women are thick enough to not understand this, that’s the issue
Comments like this I have to laugh at. Of course anyone with a different opinion MUST be thick. I'll have to remember that next time I disagree with somebody.

Genuinely, which things have changed your life?

WendelineTestaburger · 02/01/2023 18:07

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yadaya · 02/01/2023 18:42

The reasons why women often don’t choose to pursue high level careers is because of the sheer literal hard work and time commitment that is required to do that.

There is a lot to unpick in your post (and I disagree the the vast majority of it) but this bit really stuck out.
Can you elaborate because it seems to me like you are suggesting that women don't choose high level careers because they can't be bothered to work as hard?
Is that what you're saying?

WendelineTestaburger · 02/01/2023 19:17

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Endlesssummer2022 · 02/01/2023 19:34

This thread reads as though it was set up by his marketing team. I also don’t believe all of those claiming to love him on here are women. I think they are his male fans trying to push an agenda.

When you listen to the content you can hear he’s full of shit, however, the guy is articulate and uses lots of big words. Many people are impressed by this. They are the same people who excitably get all of their facts from watching QI or make big decisions based on what they read in the side of buses.

yadaya · 02/01/2023 19:42

No I'm not saying that. I'm saying that the commitment to be very successful and at the top of a career takes a lot of time, energy and hours. For men and women. Which means choices have to be made. There are clearly plenty of brilliant women who do achieve this. There's many high profile women in top level jobs.

There are more women in professional roles than men BUT significantly more men in senior positions. Why do you think this is?

Why are women able and willing to put in the work to train, complete qualifications and gain experience to work in a profession yet struggle to progress into senior roles? This isn't simply due to choice, there are structural barriers in place which were created and continue to be enforced by the patriarchy.

What I am saying is that, for many women, there is an additional barrier and that boils down to their biology. Decisions to be made. Whether to have children. Whether to stay at home with their children. Whether to outsource childcare. Whether to pursue their career and have their partner stay at home. Or whether to have children at all.

Yes, the fact that only women can give birth to children does create a barrier to career progression BUT the decision to have children, to use childcare etc is not just a decision made by women. Beyond pregnancy, childbirth and breastfeeding there is no reason why a man cannot be an equal parent and this is what we should be advocating for ..... more men working flexibly, taking time out to care for children, factoring in the fact they have children when making career decisions. That would make a huge difference.

But these things aren't patriarchy. They are a combination of choices, ability, opportunity and, biology.

Choice, opportunity and to an extent, ability are heavily influenced by societal structures and expectations around gender roles.

This isn't a case of whether someone can be bothered or not. It's a case of whether someone who has the ability want to put the sheer number of hours in, away from their families and pursue that top level career. And many women decide not to make that choice. (And others do). This isn't just women though, the same applies to men.

Why do you think many women decide not to make that choice? In my research and academic career I have spoken to and gathered information on thousands of women and their career choices. It's very clear to me (and others who research this topic) that men and women do make career decisions differently but that these are heavily influenced by societal expectations and stereotypes around gender roles.

It's absolutely fine to disagree with the vast majority of my post. Respectful debate and challenging ideas are always a good thing.

What other parts of the vast majority of my post don't you agree with?
Well, considering you don't believe in the patriarchy and my research and writing is predominantly about the impact of the patriarchy on women's career development I'd say we don't have much in common!

WendelineTestaburger · 02/01/2023 19:43

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WendelineTestaburger · 02/01/2023 19:45

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Hearmeout · 02/01/2023 19:47

I am a woman and I thought this thread was about if he was attractive which I took to mean sexually I didn't know we were doing an indepth psychological evaluation of the guy with an ethics debate thrown in for good measure but I've been on MN for YEARS so really the joke is on me for that one!!

Yes I would still shag him.

WarmNuts · 02/01/2023 19:49

You can think him attractive but he thinks you're past it at 30.

Hearmeout · 02/01/2023 19:55

WarmNuts · 02/01/2023 19:49

You can think him attractive but he thinks you're past it at 30.

Thanks for the endorsement @WarmNuts 😄

Stickytoff · 02/01/2023 20:02

Why do you think there is a patriarchy? How does it manifest itself in western society?

Do you think racism exists in western society? How does it manifest itself?

I grew up in a misogynistic culture (Ireland) ruled by a Catholic patriarchy. Unmarried women and girls were impregnated often by family members and hidden away in mother and baby homes that were still thriving when I was a school girl, I’m now in my 40s. No abortion here until a few years back. Women and girls got daily doses passive aggressive sexist “jokes” that were passed off as just for fun and the girls and women I knew spent a not insignificant portion of their lives defending themselves from these little digs. Retaliating in anyway to these comments made you the bad gal who couldn’t take the jokes. The expectations on women to be homemakers and predominately focussed on child rearing was indoctrinated all the way through the years too. I could go on and on and on but I don’t see the point. If you cannot see evidence of the patriarchy in western society then you are blind.

EasternEcho · 02/01/2023 20:02

To each his own, and you are welcome to him. At least by leaving his position of tenured professor at UofT he has given up any pretense of academia. By leaving he has disavowed the scholarly community and absent professional obligations, he can peddle whatever ideas he likes which are monetarily motivated.

JamSandle · 02/01/2023 20:04

Absolutely not!

Horror of a face and awful voice.

Hearmeout · 02/01/2023 20:05

EasternEcho · 02/01/2023 20:02

To each his own, and you are welcome to him. At least by leaving his position of tenured professor at UofT he has given up any pretense of academia. By leaving he has disavowed the scholarly community and absent professional obligations, he can peddle whatever ideas he likes which are monetarily motivated.

hahaaaaaaa!! Academia and monetary motivations is a whole other debate...

Uni's are money printing machines!!

TO confirm,

Yes I would still shag him.

WendelineTestaburger · 02/01/2023 20:05

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yadaya · 02/01/2023 20:09

Why do you think there is a patriarchy? How does it manifest itself in western society?

Well, in the context of my own subject and research I believe the patriarchy has a significant impact on the career choices and career development of women. It prevents women from participating equally in the labour market.

While women are seen as the primary carer or children and other dependents and men are seen as providers then women will always face challenges in their career progression and development.

You see it on threads here all the time. Women being criticised for working, being told they're are working for luxuries etc. Men are not criticised for working when they've had children.

The pandemic highlighted very clearly that the patriarchy exists and it's harming women's careers.
There is significant evidence that women took on the bulk of childcare, homeschooling and caring for elderly relatives even when they were also working. This wasn't a choice, women weren't feeling a biological urge to do this. They were doing it because that is what was expected- I know because they've told me this!

I could literally give hundreds of examples.... I'd highly recommend the book Invisible Women.

WendelineTestaburger · 02/01/2023 20:09

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EasternEcho · 02/01/2023 20:10

Hearmeout · 02/01/2023 20:05

hahaaaaaaa!! Academia and monetary motivations is a whole other debate...

Uni's are money printing machines!!

TO confirm,

Yes I would still shag him.

No need to confirm. I don't believe anyone doubts that you would.

yadaya · 02/01/2023 20:13

I am not denying that western culture has never been patriarchal. It has. I've already said that. I don't think it is now.

Why don't you think we live in a patriarchal society?