To say no - relatives child

[littlepercy]

I'm feeling pretty awful about this so wanted to get some opinions.

My SIL and her husband are a mess and always have been. They have recently had their 4 year old daughter removed from them for reasons I won't go into here. They are hoping to get her back living with them eventually but when that will be who knows (if ever).

SIL is DHs only sibling and therefore DN is his only niece too. His parents are elderly and cannot help. We are being asked to take DN indefinitely to avoid more permenant foster care.

We have 2 DC together, a DS who is 3 and a DD who is 6. I am a SAHM and DH works full time.

We technically have the room here but I don't think this is something I could cope with, I'd be essentially on my own dealing with this as DH would be at work. Understandably DN is showing troubling behaviour too due to all the upheaval.

DH feeling under pressure from his sister and feels awful saying no but understands as it's me who'd be expected to do most stuff day to day then it's really down to me.

I have some experience of a similar situation. I took in a relative who had been removed by children's services as I felt that it was the right thing to do rather than let them go to strangers and maybe move around.

I love them dearly, but do sometimes wonder if I made the right decision given their level of need.

Taking in a traumatised child is not like taking in a well-adjusted child relative. I recommend that you ask on the adoption and fostering boards. The level of need can sometimes be very, very high. As a relative you can be at a disadvantage compared to adopters or foster carers as you are often just left to it - including negotiating contact with birth parents - and when you haven't got your life prepared for it, as you might do once you've decided to foster or adopt. It just happens one day.

If they have been removed by social services you should, if in England, be able to be assessed as a foster carer. The LA may try and make you go for a private arrangement but contact the Family Rights Group or Kinship for advice on the kind of support you should be able to get if children's services are involved.

You have to think about your children and yourself in addition to this little child. If you don't have the capacity (mental/financial/looking after a traumatised child) it is better that they live with a foster carer who is trained to help them. You may still be able to keep in contact with them.

Don't feel as though you HAVE to do this. And don't worry about judgement if you're not able to: you are the one who will be having to live your life, and it is not easy to comprehend fully what it can entail. It can, however, be very rewarding, but if you do decide to look after them, insist on a support package or being assessed as kinship/family and friends foster carers. About 1 in 4 LA foster carers are family and friends foster carers, so it is not as rare as some people think.

Good luck with whatever you decide x

@littlepercy Your bio children are extremely close in age to the 4 yr old.
SS may be concerned about their welfare. (?)

Speak to people who have adopted traumatised 4 yr olds-
Love is not enough.
It can have serious effects on your own children and your marriage.

Experienced foster carers might be much better for her.

No, no, no. You can't, you simply cant. It's just so unfair on your DC, your whole family.
I'd like to think that I would agree to it in a heartbeat but in reality I know I couldn't do it.
No matter how guilty you feel and how sad it is for the poor child, you have to say no.

And have you reported your concerns to SS? You must be quite close to these negligent fosterers to know that

I would take the niece in but draw extremely strict boundaries (legal, SS, in writing) with SIL, with DH full agreement. Without this i wouldnt agree. Otherwise I think it's a recipe for disaster.

What “extremely strict boundaries” are you talking about?

Everyone off the thread.

We have a resident expert there is no point us all chatting and throwing ideas around for op...

I think my feelings on this would have a great deal to do with whether DH was prepared to be available a great deal including changing his job, reducing his hours, taking an extended leave of absence etc.

I take that as a no @ZeViteVitchofCwismas that you have not reported your concerns to SS about the fosterers (plural!) you know that neglect their foster children

You need to think here about your children before you think of someone else's, even if you love them.

Is her behaviour going to harm your children, your marriage?

How much contact with her parents will there be? How will this impact on your children and your marriage?

What support will your niece get from social services? How long will it last?

Will you be able to return to work when you want to?

What happens if you divorce?

I'd find it very hard to say yes in these circumstances but I may say yes to providing respite care if they were placed with foster carers.

To me, the fact that you have expressed doubts & not instinctively agreed means that you know you won't be able to cope with the poor child.
Let the experts look after her, & presumably you'll be able to keep in contact.

Your idea was a “trial”

and i responded that SS do not place children on a “trial” basis to see how it goes.

And then you referred to the negligent fosterers you know and I asked whether you had reported them to SS

As a relative you can be at a disadvantage compared to adopters or foster carers as you are often just left to it - including negotiating contact with birth parents ...

Exactly - and when difficulties arise, as they so easily can in such a situation, there's every chance the birth mother will still want input even if it's not in the child's best interests

I couldn’t not do it. Even though my children are grown I’d still do it, not because I have any desire to have more children in the house (I don’t) but I couldn’t leave to social services such a young family member who needs a home and family. It’s tough though and no judgement on my part

If she was my niece I would have her. No way would she be in the care system poor child.

OP, so sorry to read about the sad situation you and your little niece are in.

For me personally it depends firstly on how well you know her - are you close? Are you bonded? I know I am with my niece and nephew, I do love them pretty deeply and know they would feel safe with me in a crisis. It would be a no-brainer for me to take them in. But if the "mess" with her parents has prevented you from building that kind of relationship, then you don't have that foundation to work from.

Secondly, it depends on how well your SIL and your niece's father, other relatives etc, are going to behave if she were placed with you. Would their disastrous "mess" spill over into your and your kids' lives if they try to get access to her at your place? That's a real risk - I would not lightly create a situation in which extended family members with abusive behaviours wanted access to my home, and by extension to my own kids. You and DH need to understand from SS what the boundaries would be for contact with SIL, etc, and ideally have a plan in place to manage this.

Lastly I think - as with any choice to parent a child - that you need to be pretty much all in for the wonderful bits to be worth the non-wonderful bits. If you and your DH aren't ALL IN then it's probably not going to work in the long-term. It will just be too hard.

It's really easy for strangers who aren't in your shoes to tell you what to do. But honestly you have your own kids' well-being to put first and I think ultimately you need to trust your instincts.

Wish all the best to you and poor little niece - so sad.

We were in a similar situation, we said no.

One of the main reasons was we didn't feel we could keep the child safe (or our DC) and imagine that SIL would turn up intoxicated.

There were also medical conditions due to FAS which I didn't feel able to support along with 2 toddler DC.

In the end the child was adopted and I'm sure is living a much more settled life.

It was a heartbreaking decision but the right one for all children involved I believe.

Please help them, put them before you.

I wouldn’t bank on SS helping though financially or with respite. My sister in law has begged ss to help her with problems with one of hers sons and they were not interested.
Unless the child is in actual danger OP, they won’t do much to help. So consider this if you go ahead.
It’s also easy for others to say how they’d step in and do it, but indefinitely? What if it is forever?
It’s easy having a young niece stay for a few weeks, totally different for a long period of time. It will affect the dynamics of your family and could affect your own children’s happiness. Including your marriage.I’m sorry OP I’m being honest. It isn’t a case of taking in a child for a few weeks. I wouldn’t bank on her going back to her parents.

Its very tough for you all.

She's right in what she said in response to you though, isn't she?

I couldn't leave a niece in care. Just couldn't.

@Manchester1990

Please help them, put them before you.

It's not just about the OP though is it? She also has her own children to consider.

I wouldn’t blame you for a second if you say no. It’s such a big commitment and has such far reaching consequences for your family, that you need to be 100% confident to say yes. Worst case scenario is you say yes, then it doesn’t work out. If your heart isn’t totally in it, better to say no from the outset and perhaps facilitate keeping in touch for a regular play date if possible.

Not sure if it's been asked, but would your DH qualify for parental leave to help the adjustment?

If you really don't want to or can't do it, then don't. The resentment will fester and possibly have repercussions for your nuclear family.

I can sit here and say I absolutely would in a heartbeat but it's different when it's a reality.

Your local authority should offer support regardless of whether it's PFA or SGO.

Oh god, yes of course, that’s why I said it was different. But she wasn’t MY daughter and I’m glad that I could make such a difference to her life. But it was so hard, and if I couldn’t have done it, I don’t see any shame in saying no and then he would have had to sort something else. I just wanted to make the point that if you can help a child it can be amazing, but if you can’t, there will be someone who can, it’s not for everyone.