To say no - relatives child

[littlepercy]

I'm feeling pretty awful about this so wanted to get some opinions.

My SIL and her husband are a mess and always have been. They have recently had their 4 year old daughter removed from them for reasons I won't go into here. They are hoping to get her back living with them eventually but when that will be who knows (if ever).

SIL is DHs only sibling and therefore DN is his only niece too. His parents are elderly and cannot help. We are being asked to take DN indefinitely to avoid more permenant foster care.

We have 2 DC together, a DS who is 3 and a DD who is 6. I am a SAHM and DH works full time.

We technically have the room here but I don't think this is something I could cope with, I'd be essentially on my own dealing with this as DH would be at work. Understandably DN is showing troubling behaviour too due to all the upheaval.

DH feeling under pressure from his sister and feels awful saying no but understands as it's me who'd be expected to do most stuff day to day then it's really down to me.

Have a pat on the back then I guess.

What a difficult and heartbreaking situation to be in. Honestly I couldn't see my DN be put into care knowing I could possibly have helped but we are very close to my sil and her partner. Your situation is different. Going on your update I think you 100% need to put your children first and if that means saying no then so be it, this will affect them for the rest of their lives so don't feel bad for thinking of them before anything else. Your DD could be very affected by having to give up her space and share a room with a cousin she barely knows and one who will be extremely troubled at that, id be concerned about the emotional effect and mental welfare of DD.
Your DN needs someone with experience of this who is well equipped to deal with her needs and will be able to ensure she has the right support in place.

This

My family promised we would always look after each other’s children no matter what the circumstances. This poor child is just 4 years old and needs family to care for her and not strangers.

If I'm honest, I have more respect for OP and the posters that said they wouldn't do it, or only after careful consideration/with certain conditions, than the naive "i'd do it in a heart beat" emotional blackmailers that show no consideration to what the child might actually need. It's just as me,me , me and self centred as they're making OP to be.

I see you have lot of responses. But I didn't want to read and run. I apologise if this has already been stated. But I am a SW. If I were in your position, I would say yes. But- inisits on being assessed under Reg24 as a Foster carer. Then you get the allowance and training to support you with contact and looking after your n. If you agree to his as a family carer you will not be entitled to any funding.

In actual fact if a social worker is asking you to care for a child this is legally a section 20 Foster placement and they legally will need to assess you under reg 24.

Good luck.

Just to add, OP: even if the SW approaches you and you say you'd like to consider it, this doesn't mean they'd place her with you straight away. As she is already with a foster family, there'd probably be a period of months for an SGO or fostering assessment. During this you can also ask questions about support. At the same time, her parents would have a period of time to get their act together. Any competent children's services team would also be making plans as to what to do if you pull out or are unsuitable and she can't return to her parents.

The main thing you have to look out for is children's services asking you to take her on a private, voluntary basis. However, in the experience of those I know thst this has happened to, this tends to happen upon immediate removal and before an Interim Care Order has been applied for - eg if they collected her from her parents and drove straight to you, you accept, and they bypass the court system (and having to provide support) altogether as the mother has 'voluntarily' placed her with you on a private fostering basis. As she's in care already, they have responsibilities, so will do some kind of assessment which will likely take months. So you do not need to decide immediately or without all the information!

Did you mean to make so little sense?

The poster clearly said that a significant percentage of homeless people were in the care system as a child.

I think from memory it’s around the 25% mark, and something like 15% of care leavers become homeless within 2 years of leaving the system.

What are you trying, and failing, to say?

I think all the posters saying they would do it as they couldn’t see a child in care are thinking with their hearts, not their heads. OP needs to make this decision with her head.

Honestly I think she'd be happier away from family. If her parents are bad, they're going to visit her and interfere all of the time. I'd say no, because you have enough on your plate.

A 4 year old entering the care system would have to languish while SS give her parents chance after chance to sort their shit out. If they haven’t sorted themselves out within a specified timeframe - usually 12 months, the child will be placed for adoption.

A 14 year old entering the care system won’t be considered for adoption. If s/he is still in the care system at 18 - because his/her parents still haven’t sorted their shit out, s/he will leave the care system aka foster care, and be housed by SS, funded by the welfare system and supported to find a job and become independent.

His/her parents are free to provide support to their child, leaving care - in exactly the same way as parents support their adult children, who haven’t been in care.

Unfortunately lots of parents have no inclination to support their adult children once they leave the care system, in very much the same way that they didn’t support them as children - hence why they ended up in care.

Care leavers are not homeless simply because they entered the care system or because they left the care system. Don’t blame the care system for parental failings

A 4yo shouldn't 'languish' in foster care. They should be given stability and support so they are better placed to either move back home, or move on to an adoptive placement.

Ummm no

Social services wouldn't 'bar' the parents from contact. The judge would make the final decision based on recommendations and it's likely there would be some contact. Barring parents from ANY contact almost never happens, even if it's only ever letter contact.

your second para is completely wrong. There are no parental rights. If a child is suitable to be adopted the LA would apply for an adoption order. No persuasion involved. Again, the judge would make the decision.

Gosh how difficult.

Personally, I would take her on the basis that I don’t have confidence that the foster system is always a safe and nurturing place for a child. My care would at least be safe and hopefully nurturing so I’d be thinking along the lines of ‘if I don’t take her and provide some stability then how will she be impacted?’.

Saying that, a 4 year old from an unstable home will invariably have some challenges which may or may not be fixable and I fully understand the drive to put your DC first. So much more information is needed.

Also, would you realistically be able to keep sae boundaries in place with her parents? In my limited experience this is difficult to do with family members and things become blurred where they perhaps wouldn’t be with a foster placement.

Good luck to you, OP.

If the child doeent know you well that i doubt it would be very much better being placed with yiu verus a foster carer. If a non family placement would mean they have better access to therapy etc then I think it's a no brainer in terms of the child's best interests. Add in the dangerous father who probably shouldn't know where they are staying and it's even more clear cut.

Poor kid, what a dreadfully unfair situation for them. If they were a close cousin with a strong bond with your family it would be different but this set-up does not sound like it would come anywhere xlosw to meeting their needs.

I have been in a similar position. SS made us and the mother believe that if we didn’t take the children they would go into care.

Without going into details and reasons, the facts I want to tell you are that we ended up saying no and the children were NOT taken into care. SS then supported the mother to be a better parent and keep the children.

Yes. I agree. They shouldn’t languish in foster care while their parents are given chance after chance after chance. They should be placed for adoption when it becomes clear their parents are not going to put their child’s needs before their own. At least give the child the best chance at life. Why should a child hang around waiting for their parents to show a sign of putting them first? How long should that take?

What do you suggest SS do?

This.
Are you expected to supervise contact? How long would this be for? Would you take her on permanently if this was the outcome?
This isn't about the short term, do you want to be dealing with your inlaws and their drama for the rest of your life?

I am not at all convinced taking on the child ( have SS even asked you btw) is in thus child's best interests.
She would be the middle child coming into an established family with siblings very close in age.Most of all I think she deserves a willing carer who wants to Foster and has the skills, funding, time and capability to do so properly

The child's parents will be coming to your house frequen. A very difficult situation. I would discuss it with the social workers before deciding anything.

@littlepercy Don’t feel pressured to investigate more if you don’t want to, either. You can just say no at this point, and end it there. You don’t have to look into what it would entail, or for ways to make it work because other people think you should.

It's more or less the same. Kinship carers where the child is already in placement need to be assessed and go to panel within 24 weeks.

I'm sure you wouldn't but then you haven't been asked to, have you? Are your nieces and nephews traumatised and abused children, needing profound professional support, and complete strangers to you? Totally different situation altogether. It's very easy to sit there on your little high horse with your rose-tinted glasses on when it's not your reality!

This is a horrible position you've been put in @littlepercy - please don't consider doing this because you've been guilted into it. I'd be surprised if SS considered you a suitable carer anyway, due to the background with the SIL/BIL. They're the main issue as I see it - you would unquestionably be bringing trouble to your door with this horrible pair. God knows what they are capable of, and what trauma they might cause not only to their DD but your DC too. SIL lost her right to have a say when her DD had to be taken into care, so your DH should refuse to discuss this with her.

I'd also be considering - what if they had another child? Would you then feel you had to take him/her in too? What if you want to add another child to your own family?

My feeling (with zero experience) is that being placed with you would not be in your DN's best interest. She needs to be somewhere secure from her horrible parents.

Years ago I was in your situation. My mother was very against me taking responsibility for my niece's care because she felt the childs parents would feel entitled to access at our home more than with a non family foster carer. In your situation,I would say I couldn't take on full time care but would be happy to be available for support. Talk to the social workers and don't feel any guilt whatever you and your partner decide.You did not create the problem

Your DN is highly likely to have complex needs. She may have been affected by drug or alcohol taking in the womb. She will definitely have been affected by the chaotic lifestyle of her parents in her life until now.

Meet with social services. You need to fully understand what you are taking on and how long for. My experience is that SS can be quite vague and will down play a child's needs, claiming they are developmentally delayed due to lack of stimulation etc. A few years down the line it becomes clear the child has FAS/Learning needs/ severe attachment issues.

Think carefully about the impact on your children, this may not be a short term placement. Your DN may have been exposed to a highly inappropriate lifestyle and may act this out.

I am very sorry for the child and it's a shame it's taken so long for SS to reach this point.

Good luck with your decision making, you have no easy choice. I hope together you and your husband can decide what to do.

They will always place within the family if possible.

The Care system is rough. I've worked in it.
OP I would find out what support would be available and get all the facts do that you can make an informed choice.