To say no - relatives child

[littlepercy]

I'm feeling pretty awful about this so wanted to get some opinions.

My SIL and her husband are a mess and always have been. They have recently had their 4 year old daughter removed from them for reasons I won't go into here. They are hoping to get her back living with them eventually but when that will be who knows (if ever).

SIL is DHs only sibling and therefore DN is his only niece too. His parents are elderly and cannot help. We are being asked to take DN indefinitely to avoid more permenant foster care.

We have 2 DC together, a DS who is 3 and a DD who is 6. I am a SAHM and DH works full time.

We technically have the room here but I don't think this is something I could cope with, I'd be essentially on my own dealing with this as DH would be at work. Understandably DN is showing troubling behaviour too due to all the upheaval.

DH feeling under pressure from his sister and feels awful saying no but understands as it's me who'd be expected to do most stuff day to day then it's really down to me.

The child could be damaged, that is the fault of her shit parents and not the OP.

Also, the OPs children could become damaged themselves, having a cousin they barely know thrust into their lives. So instead of having one damaged child, there could be three. Is that fair in those two children?

Have the posters on here who said they’d take the niece into their home in a heartbeat read the OPs updates? The horrible sister in law emotionally blackmailing them, the thug of a brother in law who’s been to prison?

The consequences of having this troubled couple blackmailing her and her husband further, the fact they will just turn up, possibly threatening violence?

The OP doesn’t really know the child from Adam. Four times in four years is nothing.

I looked after two nephews when my sister went through a meltdown. We did it for a few weeks. Even with good intentions, it impacted my own children. Went from two children to four, but this was only a few weeks as I said.

I love my nieces and nephews but couldn’t look after them full time, I wouldn’t have the mental capacity ot physical capacity to facilitate their needs,whilst bringing up my own.

If you are at all unsure then don't do it,
Whilst it's wonderful other posters think they could cope, it is far braver to acknowledge you are not the right people to do this

Would you care to elaborate? What experience do you have of a 4 year old, entering the care system, and ending up homeless? The mind boggles at the ignorant posts on this thread 😂

Ok, I may be wrong, In our case it took 6-8 months to pass panel to become a foster carer, is this the same for LA foster carers? Also from what I understand the financial and emotional support from LA is lacking, taking on a 4 year old with trauma, with young children of your own is a big decision that should not be taken lightly

'Yes it is fine for OP to choose against potentially blowing up her own family'

Yes but the important thing imo is the vulnerable dc. The child needs experienced, solid, reliable foster care. Some posters seem to think it would be like babysitting. The poor dc needs a caring dedicated carer, not someone who understandably will be more interested in their own dc. The op's opening post screams out that she isn't cut out for it.

I could not agree more. The thing that leapt out at me from the first post was that the SIL was putting pressure on her brother to take in the child. It immediately made me wonder if she were planning to turn up on the OP’s doorstep at all different times. After reading the update on the child’s father, I think it is almost certain that something like this would happen. This is totally unacceptable and unfair to the OP and her family and could end up in a life-threatening situation. Of course the OP must consider her own family. It is all very well thinking that we could not allow a niece to be fostered elsewhere but the reality is that at four she will almost certainly need a great deal of support and help and sometimes a trained foster carer is in a much better position to provide this. It could all too easily end up with three damaged children rather than one as the OP’s children WILL be affected by their cousin’s trauma. If the child is fostered away from the family which, in light of the update is likely to happen, it is the fault of this poor little girl’s terrible parents and not @littlepercy.

I would take her. I don't think I could bear with it knowing I could help but chose not to. That poor little girl

Are SS seeking to remove her from her parents permanently? are there court proceedings aimed at this? Have you discussed the situation with the wider family about what support will be available from them in terms of child care and respite? I think you need to find out how permanent this would be. If it is 6 months that is a different scenario to forever. Don't feel guilty about saying no and sometimes where children have difficult behaviour as a result of abuse, foster parents are sometimes a better option as they have the experience and access to services that you might not.

You’ve only met this child 4 times and you are aware she has issues. You have no relationship with her parents, for good reason.

Her father sounds volatile and dangerous and you would be tied to both parents by taking her in, and have to have some sort of contact with them as she is their child.

Your own children, who must be your first priority, would be negatively affected.

As she has no relationship with your family, she would not benefit from a close family relationship.

But most importantly, you don’t want to do this and you should not allow yourself to be guilted into such a life-changing decision unless it is something you really want yo do.

Goes to show how we’re all different. I’m childfree and I would say no. I know full well I wouldn’t be equipped to take this on, and doing so wouldn’t be right for the child either. I’d also be thanking my parents for prioritizing my sibling and I, rather than condemning them.

Obviously I meant ask DN’s social worker rather than DN herself!

please @littlepercy look up the family rights group to get some expert advice so you can make an informed choice. Many of these replies show a missive lack of understanding of how these things work and I’d hate for you to make a decision informed by people with strong opinions that don’t have the knowledge to back them up with any substance. This is your DC and DN’s life we’re all debating here…to the rest of us it’s some hypothetical people we’re glibly sending replies to on an anonymous forum. It’s such a tough decision and I’m sure you’ll make the right one for you and your family.

I don’t think you should

^this

I knew a family who did this. Took in a niece, never got any financial support with clothing, food, a bed for the child etc., in the end the courts decided the child could never be returned to its parents and was adopted away from the family anyway. It put my friend’s marriage and their own three children under a LOT of pressure.

All I can say is that this is something you cannot undertake unless your heart is truly in it. It's not an easy thing to do and this child deserves a home where she is not resented, not an incumberance, not too much work. If this cannot be your home then so be it.

Exactly!
Just because there's a correlation doesn't mean the care system is the cause.
For all its many failings (mainly due to lack of funding), the care system is dealing with very traumatised and abused young people.
It's far more likely that their low educational achievement, homelessness, increased likelihood of having their own children removed etc etc... is due to the abuse and trauma they have been through rather than the care system itself.

This

I wouldn’t hesitate. It would be the same if the parents died.There is no way on earth anyone in my family would refuse to look after a defenceless and blameless 4 year old child in the circumstances described by OP.

It's your niece what's to think about if something happened to you would you want your family to step in to care for your children or would you want them in the care system

They don’t mean a 4 yr old would be homesless. They mean care experienced people are over represented amongst the homeless population (same with prison population actually). It’s a sign of the damage that trauma, abuse and being in the care system can have.

Yes, support from LA fostering teams can be very lacking!! But it can be better than nothing at all and family are only allowed to foster via the LA, if they do at all, so have no choice.

In an emergency (eg immediately upon removal) after a viability assessment (basic police check, etc) a child can be placed for up to 16 weeks before a full assessment has to be done.

As the child in this case is already in care, they'd most likely do the whole assessment until a positive panel first before moving her, in order to prevent unnecessary moves. This could well take 6+ months, and if it looks likely to happen they would probably facilitate contact with their niece (but not tell her of the plan until certain) in the meantime. This 6 months or so would also presumably be the 26 weeks the birth parents have to get their act together. So the child either goes back to her parents or to the OP (for example) at the end of this period.

I think it's a very difficult situation to be in and think many posters are a little naive.

But OP, contact Family Rights Group (they have an advice line) and explain your situation. Ask what questions you should ask the social worker about the situation and what questions you should ask them about the support that might be offered and what your legal status would be. FRG will be able to help you and advise on the legal situation. What you don't want is to say yes and then children's services just run.

It's not really your problem, her parents have obviously messed up big time. Having her move in could affect your children, it's an awful situation but not of your making so don't feel guilty.

The issue is , taking her in isn't necessarily helpful if it's not the right environment for her. If she needs more than OP has to give and frustration and resentment breed .

I think realistically you and DH probably need to sit and think of list of questions to speak to social services about.
Using what people have mentioned on here. Such as financial support, therapy, duration, expectations with the birth parents etc.
I don't think you have enough to go on at the moment.
I also think you need to speak them to see if they even want to use you, it may be that they themselves feel she would be better placed with no links to her family due to the issues at home. Good luck whatever you decide. Neither decision is going to be an easy one.

I agree. This child needs specialist support provided by experienced foster carers who are trained to deal with traumatised children and who would be able to access appropriate therapy.

Heart breaking as it is, being with the family is not always the best thing, and in this case, there is no family relationship as OP says she has only met this child a handful of times.

More importantly, with the latest update, it appears that the biological parents could cause real problems for OP and her family, including her own children.

Go with your gut instinct @littlepercy and say no. But as PP suggested you could ask for regular visits to facilitate a relationship with the child's extended family.

I would NEVER see my DN put into care. Absolutely not

What’s to think about? How about her own children, her marriage, her mental health, her overall ability to cope?

Taking on a child through a sense of obligation or guilt is not necessarily the best for the child either, let alone anyone else in the family. The child needs someone who can meet their needs, not someone who can’t yet has agreed to house them because of a misguided sense of ‘family duty’.