To say no - relatives child

[littlepercy]

I'm feeling pretty awful about this so wanted to get some opinions.

My SIL and her husband are a mess and always have been. They have recently had their 4 year old daughter removed from them for reasons I won't go into here. They are hoping to get her back living with them eventually but when that will be who knows (if ever).

SIL is DHs only sibling and therefore DN is his only niece too. His parents are elderly and cannot help. We are being asked to take DN indefinitely to avoid more permenant foster care.

We have 2 DC together, a DS who is 3 and a DD who is 6. I am a SAHM and DH works full time.

We technically have the room here but I don't think this is something I could cope with, I'd be essentially on my own dealing with this as DH would be at work. Understandably DN is showing troubling behaviour too due to all the upheaval.

DH feeling under pressure from his sister and feels awful saying no but understands as it's me who'd be expected to do most stuff day to day then it's really down to me.

'OP having read your update that little girl needs a dedicated experienced foster career with SS support to provide ongoing therapy.'

Totally agree. In an ideal world the op and her dh would have been a signicant presence in this poor kids life but they haven't been, they are practically strangers. Surely the dd needs someone committed to caring for a very vulnerable 4yr old.

Just an awful, tragic situation.

This is a really really hard decision and there's no easy answer. Firstly, you're absolutely right to think it through and not make any rash decisions. You are NOT a bad person if you opt that taking her in is not the best thing for your family. You say your DD is 6, would it be worth speaking with her about it gently?

Personally, I have no idea what I would do but I think if I were to take her, I'd need as much understanding as possible of her needs and lay the care needs out clearly with my DP as he would need to be very involved and provide adequate support.

Secondly, you could reframe it - she could come and stay for eg 6 months. I know I am massively over simplifying this but I do it with all sorts just to break things down a little. She might stay less or longer but at least you might be able to see how things go and compartmentalise it a little so it isn't such an overwhelming decision.

Regardless good luck whatever you decide.

God this situation is just so desperately sad.

I was thinking you should do it until I read your update - and I bet that's an abridged version of all the chaos that that little girl has suffered.

There are so many things I would want to know before even considering this:
*would the parents have any access (this would be a firm 'no' if this was the case)
*would you get any financial support ?- like foster carers
*would DN need to have her own room?
*would you get psychological support for her previous neglect?
*would you get support?

My friend adopted 2 little boys at age 3 & 4 (they were in foster care due to neglect) - they are now 7&8 and still way behind their peers at school because they weren't exposed to all the key developmental stuff when they were babies / toddlers e.g. fine motor skills and sensory stuff. Lovely little boys though.

Do you have aunts, or other family members on either side who might be better suited you can make contact with. From working in social care I know they assess family members but they don’t have many resources to go hunting people down. So maybe you could help identify and people in your or the father’s family who might be more suitable.

also offer to have contact with her maybe?

What would you do if the fostered 4yo couldn't cope with being in childcare?

After your update, I would say no with the greatest of sadness.

She needs a secure, long-term placement. Her mother needs to rock-bottom before she will ever get any help for her own issues. God knows what that child has witnessed.

I would definitely try to keep in touch with your DN without ever telling her that a kinship arrangement was an option.

I'm a compulsive volunteer. Honestly, the hardest thing I ever learnt to do is to say no. I want to fix everything and make everything better for everybody. This is not a good thing. I said earlier that I would take on my great-niece, and I would because I love her. However, this is quite easy for me to say because she has excellent parents and a large number of adults who would want to take her if her parents suddenly died.

People who voluntarily give up huge chunks of their lives to care for children like this are undoubtedly wonderful, and the best of them provide invaluable care. However, it's so important to be realistic before leaping in and assuming everything will work out wonderfully. The child is already showing signs of troubling behaviour, and OP has no training in dealing with this. SS are overstretched and under resourced, so I wouldn't count on much help from them. So where are these skills to come from? And who will help OPs kids when they are affected too? The welfare of the child should be absolutely considered first and foremost by the people responsible to placing her in a new home, but OP has a greater duty to her own children.

It's obvious that not everybody is cut out for parenthood- some people just aren't up to it. So how much more is this the case when the child has a need for help to address the crappy, damaging parenting of people who have cased as yet unknown damage? It is a good, sensible thing to consider carefully the entire situation before even thinking about taking on the care of another child. And of course her own children should be the first thing she considers. OP has met this child maybe a handful of times. She is almost a stranger to her. Her children have no real relationship with their cousin. Let's not pretend that this is not a huge thing to ask of a family.

This.

I couldn't cope thinking she wasn't being cared for and looked after, what an awful situation.

That said, if you don't want her then you probably wouldn't be particularly warm or patient with her. I expect you would meet her physical needs but perhaps not her emotional needs if you see her as a burden. I think she deserves the most loving home. If that's not yours then best to walk away unfortunately.

Yes, it's not as simple as just taking her in and if you look after her permanently, it is highly likely that her parents (and their dysfunction) are in your and your children's lives until she's 18.

It's not true in my experience though that looked after children get seen quicker by camhs. More than a year's wait so far even for an initial phone call. I know of others with their own children in the same town who were referred earlier and are already in treatment. It may just be that in general looked-after children's needs are sometimes greater or testified to by more professionals. But there is no queue skipping in my experience! It may be different elsewhere.

But also, as a kinship carer it can be difficult to get a referral in the first place, as unless you have an SGO/Adoption Order you don't have PR, and if you are fostering and LAs want you to go for SGO, they may resist because God forbid there should be any mental health diagnoses prior to the SGO as then support may have to be written into the plan... far easier to resist CAMHS referral and instead push for SGO and say you can get support afterwarss with the Adoption Support Fund (what this translates as is: don't rely on help from anyone, especially with the depleted public services we have at the moment).

I wish you all the luck with your decision. But whatever happens to this little girl IS NOT YOUR FAULT, and there may be other ways of helping her.

Basically anything is better than care. If you possibly can do this, I think you should. Her grandparents may not be able to do much but could they have her a couple of afternoons a week? What about her other grandparents? Trying to build a bigger community to help would be a good thing if she does return to her parents. You could also use the guardianship money for some extra hours at nursery/childminders?

OP, you’re very focused on what could go wrong here. May I suggest that you spend some time considering what could go right, just to help you make a balanced decision?
With help from social services, fostering allowance, counselling services and mentoring, could you make this work? Perhaps you’d feel better if you could have a non-contact order in place to keep SIL and her partner away?
And importantly, what would the impact be on your family and your relationship if you don’t even try?

I have no experience, and it’s a really hard decision, but it sounds like maybe DN would really be better off with experienced foster careers. To second what WWWWWN said, could you have contact with DN in that context - have her round for tea or take her out with your DC sometimes, so she gets to know her extended family. That might help give her a more stable foundation.

You would most likely have to give up work if you were to say yes. Also as it would be a kinship placement you would get minimal if any financial support. Then there would be the therapy , getting to appointments dealing with contact orders , liaising with school/nursery etc let alone the fact that this child has been neglected, they will likely need educational support plus help with eating, toileting, sleeping , speech and that is just the obvious stuff .

This is how I'd feel personally but I would never judge someone who thought carefully about it and decided they genuinely couldn't cope.

There’s some extremely naive posters here that clearly have no idea what this could actually mean.

RTFT. This is the worst kind of knee jerk reaction. It’s not as simple as ‘taking her in’. OP has her own children to consider and does not know the child - met her 4 times in 4 years. SIL’s husband has a criminal record and has made threats against the OP’s husband - and at some point will be expected to have these people in her home for access visits. Would you take this on, knowing you were putting your own family in harms’ way ?

Presumably the DC is already in a foster home. In which case, she'll have had more contact with those carers than the 4 occasions with OP?

Are you going to have to deal with her parents coming round trying to see ger/take her out when they aren't supposed to, but expecting you to go along with it because you're family? Because that could gave family wide ramifications for all

‘It’s all about OP and how it would affect the OP’

Good! She absolutely should be considering this, because the ones ready to guilt OP into saying yes aren’t. OP isn’t morally obliged to invite a shitstorm into her own family due to someone else’s failings. Taking in a traumatized child with aggressive and unpredictable parents, when she has no experience in this field and is unlikely to get much in the way of financial, emotional and/or practical support, is frankly a recipe for disaster. Not just for OP but for her husband and children as well.

None of this is OP’s responsibility.

There’s some extremely naive posters here that clearly have no idea what this could actually mean.

Indeed, and they should be ashamed for making out that OP lacks love and kindness. This isn't for a few weeks, it could have a terrible effect on her own children for years to come and affect their physical and mental health.

How heartbreaking. There are no winners here.

Given the update, this is unworkable. You barely know DN, haven't got the room and she needs to be at an address her father doesn't know.

Fostering allowance wouldn’t apply would it - she’s family ? And if counselling and mentoring are required what will be the impact on the OP’s own family ? It’s not a question of not even trying - if she tries and fails, it will be even worse for the child. There’s no guarantee of a non contact order and the SIL’s partner has already made threats against the OP’s husband. I feel for the little girl and the OP’s dilemma but putting her own family in harms’ way isn’t the answer. This is complicated and probably best left to experienced foster carers.

No, no fostering allowance if family