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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To say no - relatives child

551 replies

littlepercy · 30/12/2022 16:35

I'm feeling pretty awful about this so wanted to get some opinions.

My SIL and her husband are a mess and always have been. They have recently had their 4 year old daughter removed from them for reasons I won't go into here. They are hoping to get her back living with them eventually but when that will be who knows (if ever).

SIL is DHs only sibling and therefore DN is his only niece too. His parents are elderly and cannot help. We are being asked to take DN indefinitely to avoid more permenant foster care.

We have 2 DC together, a DS who is 3 and a DD who is 6. I am a SAHM and DH works full time.

We technically have the room here but I don't think this is something I could cope with, I'd be essentially on my own dealing with this as DH would be at work. Understandably DN is showing troubling behaviour too due to all the upheaval.

DH feeling under pressure from his sister and feels awful saying no but understands as it's me who'd be expected to do most stuff day to day then it's really down to me.

OP posts:
Adultchildofelderlyparents · 30/12/2022 18:32

TeenDivided · 30/12/2022 18:01

What is so lovely is to see all these people willing to take on a traumatised child 'in a heartbeat'. Let's hope at least 10% of them go on to contact SS in the new year to offer to be foster carers ....

Very big difference between taking in a relative to maintain a family connection and taking in a complete stranger, traumatised or not.

YouSoundLovely · 30/12/2022 18:32

SE13Mummy's post is excellent.

I think given your update re the risk from the parents, not knowing the little girl well and the fact that there would be room-sharing involved (sounds a trivial point but it isn't really, especially because the poor girl is exhibiting troubled behaviours), it really wouldn't be a good idea. She would be best off with foster parents who can focus on her. But being an involved, caring, non-resident aunt, as far as that is possible, would possibly be of great benefit to her.

All those saying they couldn't see her go into 'the care system', as if it were some monolithically awful thing - of course it's far from ideal, but there are many incredibly dedicated foster carers as part of this system. Taking this poor child out of a misguided need to feel like a good (or not-bad) person would help nobody.

BigglyBee · 30/12/2022 18:33

I would also want to hear from a qualified person that it was in the child's best interests to be taken in by a family member. It may not be. Sometimes, getting right away is the safest and the best option.

WhiskeyStones · 30/12/2022 18:35

Adultchildofelderlyparents · 30/12/2022 18:32

Very big difference between taking in a relative to maintain a family connection and taking in a complete stranger, traumatised or not.

They hardly know the child though so not that different at all.

anyolddinosaur · 30/12/2022 18:35

SS like family fostering, they will ask but you would need to be assessed. It's possible they would bar the parents from contact if they assess that as in the best interests of the child.

If she goes into care it is likely that they will try to persuade the parents to give up parental rights and allow her to be adopted. That might actually be in the child's best interests.

Mamai90 · 30/12/2022 18:35

I couldn't see my nephews go into the care system. I just couldn't. I'd do anything to stop that happening.

morekidsthanhands · 30/12/2022 18:37

I have had guardianship of my niece and nephew since they were 4 and 2 (now 9 and 7) so have experience in this. Somewhat different though as we knew it would be a permanent arrangement from the start.
Very easy for others without experience to say they would do this in a heartbeat. Its a big commitment and you need to go into it with your eyes open. Speaking to social services would be a good start have they approached you?
Similar to you my niece and nephew are not my blood relatives and I also do the majority of care (partner works in a children's home so long hours). I also had my own child who was one at the time. There are many groups on Facebook for kinship care or special guardianship which would be good to ask questions in to get specific advice or feel free to send me a pm.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 30/12/2022 18:37

(SIL/partner) would have NO influence in any shape or form SS decision

Nobody's suggested they'd be able to influence SS; the poster you repiled to was referring to the parents' likely impact on OP's own family life, but for whatever reason you ignored that

Whydidimarryhim · 30/12/2022 18:37

Given that these are the types of parents she has I would let her go to a foster family. You will get nothing but stress and abuse from the parents given they are so dysfunctional. It will certainly impact your children - not the child but the parents. Let a foster family get support from social services and contact centre meeting with the child. It’s a difficult decision but you need to focus on your own family.

TheHateIsNotGood · 30/12/2022 18:38

Not just with my heart but with my head I would take this child in, as long as SS agree to it as a 'placement' and you have temporary Guardianship. My head says that there are few truly caring SS Homes and too few great Foster Carers out there to know that this child won't be thrown to the 'wolves'.

Give it a go OP, the child may react well to a caring environment and it could be a very positive experience for your dc. Don't give it a go if you don't have a heart big enough to share your kindness.

Pythonesque · 30/12/2022 18:38

Oh how I feel for you and your husband having to make decisions about this.

If you were actually fostering children alongside your own, I'm pretty sure the recommendation would be to take children distinctly different ages from yours. I agree that this child is likely to need / would benefit from proper therapeutic support (not necessarily immediately, and not necessarily only while young). I too have heard that family carers don't tend to get access to the funds or supports that fosterers should (in principle) be able to use.

I agree with those who have suggested you try to be an "involved auntie". If this little girl can go to a good foster placement but you also start to build a relationship with her, then potentially at some future time it may prove appropriate and possible for you to look after her. But not now. I'd be discussing with SS how ongoing contact can be facilitated safely. I've no idea whether "systems" are set up to allow this sensibly, hope it can work out for you all.

Very best wishes.

dinmin · 30/12/2022 18:41

This is a super tough situation all round but like others have said I’m not sure I could say no in your shoes especially with one parent at home and the child being school age. I’d also be thinking - if my kids needed it, not necessarily due to any wrongdoing but eg a tragic accident, I’d hope that someone (ok maybe not any of DH’s family in this situation but possibly your own or close friends etc) would take them in rather than seeing them go to strangers.

However, I’d also want the support and assurances etc. can you go the kinship foster carer route (emergency approval to tide you over) so you’re entitled to all that plus the money?

WombatChocolate · 30/12/2022 18:42

The reality is, that any children in this situation will be damaged. They are damaged and their lives impacted in ways that only start to become clear as time passes.

To take this child would involve big sacrifices from OP and all of her family. SS are right to make clear that this would be a very difficult task and everyone in the family will be impacted. It’s important to go I to it with your eyes as open as they can be (and to be honest, until you’re in it, you can’t even imagine some of the issues, however we’ll the SS try to educate you).

Some people are able to make those sacrifices and will choose to do so. Even though it’s terribly hard and they and their own children will lose out in some ways, they will still do it. Others will feel the personal cost and cost to their children is too great. In the end, it’s something its only you can decide - you might find you do have the inner strength to muster and do it,despite how hard it will be, or you might not.

For those children in this situation, their life chances are already hugely damaged and the rejection they’ve faced will impact their whole lives. Current thinking is that if it is possible to keep a child within the extended family, this is really worthwhile and helps prevent that total sense of rejection a child has when removed into care and away from all family. SS work hard to make this happen when it can. It won’t usually be perfect, but none of the scenarios are perfect and they are interested in finding the best possible outcome in a bad situation. So, it isn’t the case that a ‘professional foster carer is better or more equipped. A family member by very definition is different and closer to the child, their background and means the child knows they remain within the family, even if it’s a distant relative.

4 is towards the upper end of adoption ages. If this isn’t something that’s being concerned for this child or there’s too much uncertainty about whether they might return to their parents in future, a longer term fostering arrangement is what would be considered best. Family members are more likely to provide that.

It is a truly horrible dilemma to be faced with. And MN can’t tell you the answer and actually none of the certain responses on the thread, can be sure they would respond like they say if it came to it. Many people might like to think they’d definitely say ‘yes’, but actually it’s a complex decision and anyone with sense would need to know a lot more and understand what’s actually involved before deciding. It’s still a child under SS and most people have little understanding of what that actually means.

OP, you might have a gut reaction to this…you clearly do. I’d say it’s worth remaining non-committal, but finding out more. Find out more about what’s involved, think carefully and vitally discuss it thoroughly with your DH, because this absolutely would need to be a joint decision. Whatever you decide, for your own peace of mind, you need to know you’ve thoroughly looked into whatever the issues are and implications.

And I’d just say too, that this might be something that never really becomes an option anyway. SiL who has had her child removed suggesting it, is not the same as SS themselves looking into it and considering it. There is a lot that would need to happen first.

And if you pray, do pray for guidance on this one. Quite often, people find the answer appears to them and they then feel a sense of peace and purpose in whatever the answer is.

BadNomad · 30/12/2022 18:43

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DisneyChops · 30/12/2022 18:43

This is not an easy situation by all means, whatever happens.

However, if it was me, having seen many children going through the care system and being passed pillar to post (as a teacher), I would absolutely take her.

Thedoglovesmemore · 30/12/2022 18:44

OhChristmasTreeOhChristmasTreeFaLaLa · 30/12/2022 18:08

You have space, similar aged children and are a sahm, I can't understand why you'd say no? It'd be far more traumatic for her to be placed with strangers who may not treat her with kindness, anything could happen to her. If it was my neice I'd be bending over backwards to help, especially if I didn't work.

This kind of sanctimonious comment is unhelpful and I suspect not what would happen in the reality the OP has posted.

OP having read your update that little girl needs a dedicated experienced foster career with SS support to provide ongoing therapy.

You would potentially be putting your own family at risk and (kindly) are not equipped to deal with a traumatised child I suspect (I wouldn’t be either). The impact on your own children would be huge.

stay involved and aim to provide a regular level of contact, maybe including the grandparents too so the niece knows she has family but that’s as far as I’d take it.

My guess is that SS would deem placement with you a risk also and not pursue it.

Stripedbag101 · 30/12/2022 18:45

i can totally see your hesitation - your children have to be your first priority.

its east for me to say I would take my niece in a heartbeat. I would. I have agreed to raise her in the unlikely event her parents pass away. I see her every week and am very close to her. It would mean a huge upheaval to my life - but I would make it work.

If your husband is more keen then you can you switch? He stays home and you work? This is after all his niece and his family?

DisneyChops · 30/12/2022 18:46

Yes I would also query how SS would feel about the child being in such close proximity to their actual parents. Safeguarding is the ultimate priority here. Will she be safe? Depends on the circumstances obviously.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 30/12/2022 18:47

Give it a go OP, the child may react well to a caring environment and it could be a very positive experience for your dc. Don't give it a go if you don't have a heart big enough to share your kindness

Ironic username in view of what you just wrote, TheHateIsNotGood - I'd have thought OP has problems enough without implications like this

Her update is sad but surely no surprise since children aren't removed for no good reason, but I've yet to see any of the one-line "I couldn't let her go into care" posters address the likely implications for OP's own family

girlmom21 · 30/12/2022 18:47

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I don't think that the OP doesn't give a fuck or she wouldn't be asking here - but ultimately she's having to consider her own family too.

LondonGirl83 · 30/12/2022 18:48

So difficult-- if you couldn't realistically cope, then know your limits and say no. However, I would as long as there were clear boundaries established with the parents to minimise the chaos. The impact of being completely removed from family and placed with strangers (even kind ones) at that age is very damaging. I'd struggle to sleep at night unless it was really untenable.

SlashBeef · 30/12/2022 18:48

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That's just so unhelpful. OP has a duty to her own children first and foremost. There's some good advice here. I'd go with seeing if you can build up some contact with her via ss and the foster family. See how it goes. It's such a difficult situation and I genuinely don't know what I would do.

MrsDSalvatore · 30/12/2022 18:50

Stressedmum2017 · 30/12/2022 16:41

There is absolutely no way I could see a child of my family go in to care when I could have her. Not saying it would be all roses but my god anythings better than that alternative. Poor little girl.

100% agree. Poor little girl needs to be around people she knows and who love her. It's not her fault her parents have let her down, she shouldn't have to suffer. Her troubling behaviour is likely to get worse if she goes into foster care.

I do empathise with how hard this decision must be though. Is it likely to be a long term thing?

Wetblanket78 · 30/12/2022 18:51

It's not always as simple as taking a child in. There will be an issue of her parents knowledge where she is living and turning up unannounced. Foster carers are trained to deal with behavioural problems. Children in foster care also get seen by cambs quicker for therapy.

HiccupHorrendousHaddock · 30/12/2022 18:51

It's a hell of an ask. However, if it was a toddler in my family - and knowing the outcomes of foster children as a cohort - I think I'd have to do it, especially having children of a similar age.

However, I believe the OP knows best whether she and her family could manage a young child who has probably been through trauma and may well have attachement problems.

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