To say no - relatives child

[littlepercy]

I'm feeling pretty awful about this so wanted to get some opinions.

My SIL and her husband are a mess and always have been. They have recently had their 4 year old daughter removed from them for reasons I won't go into here. They are hoping to get her back living with them eventually but when that will be who knows (if ever).

SIL is DHs only sibling and therefore DN is his only niece too. His parents are elderly and cannot help. We are being asked to take DN indefinitely to avoid more permenant foster care.

We have 2 DC together, a DS who is 3 and a DD who is 6. I am a SAHM and DH works full time.

We technically have the room here but I don't think this is something I could cope with, I'd be essentially on my own dealing with this as DH would be at work. Understandably DN is showing troubling behaviour too due to all the upheaval.

DH feeling under pressure from his sister and feels awful saying no but understands as it's me who'd be expected to do most stuff day to day then it's really down to me.

She has met the child 4 times. That is not knowing her.
(Yes I know that info has only just come through)

From the update I think the OP would likely have problems with the girl's Dad turning up causing trouble.

Absolutely right!
The Parents of the 4 yr old are to blame ,not OP.

It is desperately sad that children are let down by feckless, selfish, self absorbed parents.

Abuse/ Neglect must have been severe for SS to consider removing a child for their safety.

My immediate thought was yes - I would take her in a heartbeat.

However, after your update, I think you are right to say No as the impact on your DCs could be dreadful. If the parents show up demanding to see her and threatening (as sounds likely) you may well have to move. The disruption would be awful for your children.

How dare your SiL push you to foster her child?! Rather than her actually step up and sort her selfish self out. She is a walking red flag too.

I think it's really difficult due to barely knowing the child and how long it would be for.

Would SIL &her partner feel that they could just pop in whenever they wanted to?

Are the parents ever likely to be able to have her back?

Yes I agree @crazeekat not OP's doing at all

I don’t think anyone can say til they’re in the situation. Are you close your niece, do you know her well? We’re not close to our siblings or their kids so I wouldn’t consider it. I think I would do it if my own children were ok with it and if I was close to my siblings and their children. I wouldn’t exactly be happy to do it in all honesty even in that circumstance.
You wouldn’t be unreasonable to not do it, as sad as it is for the child, I think it’s ok to think of yourself.

I have been reading through the various posters jumping in to say they would give their niece a home - and saw your update .

The circumstances sound very hard, it does not sound like the child knows you well, and it sounds like some of the parental issues could negatively affect your family.

I have never been in your position, but I would only consider it if the child’s father, and possibly mother, were legally barred from my home - if the contact was to be in a contact centre, hard as that sounds, and if there was therapeutic support available. ( I can dream)

I have seen a traumatised child fostered by friends - not their first foster . It was hard on all concerned, but the foster parents had adult children who were supportive, and an arms length relationship with the failing parents.

Trust your gut on this one.

In your position I would do it, I don't think I could say no.
You could have DN and DD sharing a room, or your DD and DS could share a room, at 3 and 6 this is fine.
You are a SAHM but your DD at age 6 is at school and your DN at age 4 would presumably be going to school too? You only have to manage all three at once for a few hours each day, other people do it.
The care system is awful. She is your niece, you might have only met her a few times but she'll still benefit from the family connection.

So very very tough for you OP, I'm not sure what I would do, I'd be concerned that I'd become a target for the dreadful feral parents.
Heartbreaking position to be in.

But unfortunately, she could be involved in the process. Unless there's some court protection order banning contact, SIL and BIL and all their grim behaviours might be constantly in the faces and lives of OP and her husband and all three children. On the phone, at the window or the school gate.

@littlepercy Your update is grim.
No way ought you be fostering their child that they have damaged so profoundly.

It will ruin your DC’s lives.

Professional foster carers sound a far better bet.

It’s not like a child you already know and have a close relationship with- you are in effect strangers.

Given the update, I would say no. As previous posters have said, the parents are likely to harass you to see their child and you could potentially be inviting trouble to your door with how violent and aggressive they are.

You don't know the child and have no contact with them or their parents, so they would essentially be a stranger in your house and disrupting your own children's lives.

Sadly, the child would be better off far away from their parents and put somewhere with experienced foster carers. Hopefully they can be adopted to a better life

In theory I'd want to help DN somehow but in reality, I'd see that as not offering a family to squeeze into the middle of but to be an active auntie. A 4 year old who is likely to have disrupted attachments and who has experienced early trauma isn't a project child for guilty family members to take on to assuage that guilt; she needs and deserves dedicated therapeutic parenting from parents who can prioritise her needs and who have secured a well-funded therapy package from the LA.

I teach in a primary PRU and a significant proportion of our pupils are cared for by family members under an SGO. It may have been an appropriate decision when the children were preschoolers or babies but aged 9 when they are still living in a one bed flat with no garden, the child is violent, runs away, trashes the home, is vulnerable to being recruited by local gangs and the carer cannot get any therapeutic help, it's hard to see how it was ever going to work. These carers have put their lives on hold, are isolated and unsupported. They did what they thought was best when they were asked because they didn't want the child fostered but actually, the pupils who are fostered tend to be better supported by systems.

In your position, I would be asking how I could support as an involved auntie e.g. having her for tea or watching sports day but I wouldn't be putting my traumatised, needy DN into a situation whereby I couldn't prioritise her needs all of the time.

I feel people saying 'yes, no question' are responding with their hearts and not their heads. They are thinking of their own sweet nieces and nephews that they know and love and slotting them into their normal life.

They are not thinking about a neglected/abused child with potentially trauma and ongoing challenging behaviour. They are not thinking about having to facilitate contact at a contact centre, of SS reports and intrusion into their life, of their own children getting hit, having their toys broken, of birth parents turning up randomly causing trouble.

If the OP's children were older, if she had a spare bedroom, if she already had a relationship with the child, it might be different. But it is in no way a clear cut 'yes' and people shouldn't make the OP feel guilty for not just doing it 'in a heartbeat'.

From your update it sounds like you could be putting your own children at risk if you agree to this (and DN will also be at risk if her parents can easily get at her). A foster care placement might be best for all involved if threats of violence have been made.

Just seen your update. As you hardly know the child, I wouldn’t consider it. You could cause huge issues for your own children and I wouldn’t be willing to risk that.

How many traumatised children have you adopted?
Unless you have seen it close up it’s impossible to know the ramifications of a damaged child and her ghastly parents on a family unit.

OP’s family will suffer.

I would take her, but would require legal guardianship and strict control over visitation with parents since, as you allude, they are complete cf's. I couldn't turn my back on this poor child who doesn't deserve to be lost to the system. I'd take her and treat her as my own.

I said it up thread and will say it again after your update. Please, please do not do this. The chances of a successful outcome if you do are slim to none.

It's so hard to think of the 4 year old in all this but you have to be strong and not put your own children and your own family's mental health at risk of potential trauma.

They would have NO influence in any shape or form SS decision.

OP

Would I be correct in thinking SS have not approached you? Not raised this as even a possibility?

It would be a no brainer for me. I just couldn’t let a family member be taken into care without helping. It would be heart breaking, and I only imagine what damage being in the care system would cause her, even if just short term.

And what if the parents decide to turn up on OP's doorstep to see their daughter?
And if this child with behavioural problems starts hurting the OP's children? It's not easy to just "treat a child as your own".

I wouldn’t OP. You’ll be torn between prioritising her needs because of her trauma and the needs of your own DC.

SIL and her partner will bring trouble to your door, they are pushing you to pick up the pieces.

I’d also say you don’t have room if it’d involve room sharing. It is too much to ask of your DC. And also might work fine when they are small but will be a different situation in 10 years time.

This isn't just a case of doing the same thing as usual, just for an extra child. This child is likely to need extra support and counselling- will this be made available? Is it affordable, or will there be an allowance available for her care?

I know that I would do this for my great-niece (my niece is 28 so not likely to need my care!). But we are already close, and see each other very often. But this is in no way an easy decision because it only ever has to be made in traumatic and difficult circumstances. Had this been an issue for my sister's child (my great-niece is technically my husband's relative, not mine) then the nature of his disability and the violence of his mother would have meant that I wouldn't even consider it (and it was suggested at one point).

Refusing to take on this extra burden does not make anyone a bad person. Better to refuse, but ask for regular contact, than to take on something you don't feel equipped for and potentially let the child down and have them taken into care anyway.