Men in women’s spaces

[BrightSaturn]

Just using this to rant really…

2 times in the past month I have encountered men in women only spaces.

1. I went to a feeding room to breastfeed my daughter in a shopping centre. I walked in and there were two young women in there changing their babies and one of their boyfriends just taking up one of the only chairs just sitting there, sitting using his phone. It’s a small room with 3 chairs in. I didn’t know what to do so I thought I’ll just sit down and get ready slowly and hopefully they’ll leave. I have fed in public but this was a small room so I felt vulnerable and like he shouldn’t be there and I didn’t want to lift my top up whilst he was sitting basically opposite me so I eventually asked if he could leave the room, they looked annoyed but thankfully he did go, after she looked at him and said “it’s up to you”…
2. I went into a changing room in a shop the other day with my mum, imagine a big room with seats in the middle and curtained dividers all round the outside. My mum was only trying on cardigans so really she just needed a mirror but in the middle on a seat was a boy about 17/18 years old. His girlfriend was trying on clothes. I couldn’t believe it! It wasn’t even doors on the changing rooms, just curtains. Why he thought this was acceptable I have no idea. Again I felt vulnerable and this time I didn’t have the confidence to ask him to leave. If my mum had been actually changing I would have probably found a shop assistant but still it’s not fair that we have to ask them to leave, he should not have been there in the first place!

aibu to think women’s spaces are being invaded more and more? How can we stop this from happening?

[WhoHasMovedMyBrain]

Went to a swimming pool birthday party of my dd's friend. Most of the kids changed in the same group changing rooms with their mum's though other changing rooms were available. The kids who were brought by their dads went to one of the single changing rooms. I was pretty much naked (I was changing as I'd promised host parent I'd go into the water to supervise the kids) when I realised that one of the dads was in our changing room. Actually I didn't realise. One of the other mums pointed it out to.me. apparently she'd tried to tell him there are other changing rooms that he can use but he stayed anyway. Oh well..

[RufustheFloralmissingreindeer]

as far as I remember (in the dark ages and my backwards town) there were mother and baby rooms some of which, not all, incorporated a baby change in some of the shops and separate baby changing in the toilet areas

[MoreSleepPleasee]

John Lewis recently the same thing happened in the baby change /feeding area. Man was sat there taking up space on his phone while there was a queue of parents and babies outside waiting.

[disneydreaming101]

@MrsOvertonsWindow Great that you were involved with the campaigns for breastfeeding facilties in the 90s. Maybe you can have a word with posters like Tryingformore1
disneydreaming101, lawandgin & minimarshmallowsmore who spent a lot of time insisting that these campaigns didn't exist.


Urm can you point out where I said these 'campaigns' did not exist? Never said that at all, if you can point out where I did I will of course fully apologise but I never ever said campaigns for breastfeeding facilities didn't exist

[EasterIsland]

See this is what I just don't get. Surely any decent man would be embarrassed and mortified in that situation. My DH wouldn't dream of being in there, let alone smiling at a woman poking her head arSee this is what I just don't get. Surely any decent man would be embarrassed and mortified in that situation. My DH wouldn't dream of being in there, let alone smiling at a woman poking her head around the curtain. It's just not appropriate.

What's happened to make men feel they can be in these spaces, and why are some women saying it's ok?

I think @EddietheEagle what current events remind us about is that there are fewer "decent men than we might hope, sadly ...

[CleoandRalf]

@RufustheFloralmissingreindeer

There have been lots of nasty comments from both ‘sides’ of this argument

There really haven’t.

One side has been laughing at women, making snide comments, purposely misunderstanding why FF babies might also need a quiet space to feed, advocated for photographing and verbally abusing men using spaces they’re able to use, calling any woman here disagreeing that all family rooms are BF rooms men or misogynists.

[Allthegoodnamesarechosen]

@Simonjt

A parents room isn’t a single sex space, as I have clearly explained to you twice, single sex spaces will have either women or men on the door/entrance.

And will you take any notice? Or will you think that it just doesn’t apply to special you?

Answers on a postcard, as they used to say.

[OmiOmy]

@WhoHasMovedMyBrain

Went to a swimming pool birthday party of my dd's friend. Most of the kids changed in the same group changing rooms with their mum's though other changing rooms were available. The kids who were brought by their dads went to one of the single changing rooms. I was pretty much naked (I was changing as I'd promised host parent I'd go into the water to supervise the kids) when I realised that one of the dads was in our changing room. Actually I didn't realise. One of the other mums pointed it out to.me. apparently she'd tried to tell him there are other changing rooms that he can use but he stayed anyway. Oh well..

He was told and he still refused? I feel sorry for the women around him. There's that sense of entitlement again.

[user1483646497]

@WhoHasMovedMyBrain

Went to a swimming pool birthday party of my dd's friend. Most of the kids changed in the same group changing rooms with their mum's though other changing rooms were available. The kids who were brought by their dads went to one of the single changing rooms. I was pretty much naked (I was changing as I'd promised host parent I'd go into the water to supervise the kids) when I realised that one of the dads was in our changing room. Actually I didn't realise. One of the other mums pointed it out to.me. apparently she'd tried to tell him there are other changing rooms that he can use but he stayed anyway. Oh well..

This has happened to me before too. On the basis that he didn't want his daughter to have to change in front of strange men in the male changing room. Ok - so my daughters have to change in front of a strange man instead, whilst in the female changing room no less.

[RufustheFloralmissingreindeer]

@CleoandRalf

There really haven’t.

One side has been laughing at women, making snide comments, purposely misunderstanding why FF babies might also need a quiet space to feed, advocated for photographing and verbally abusing men using spaces they’re able to use, calling any woman here disagreeing that all family rooms are BF rooms men or misogynists.

we’ll have to agree to differ 🙂

im going straight into happy new year mode on this one….🥂

[Abhannmor]

Short of some 'accident' or genuine problem we have no business being in women's spaces. And we can usually bottle feed a baby virtually anywhere.

[bythere]

@user1483646497 That mindset has never made sense to me either. People don't want a young child in the opposite sex room but they don't comprehend how much more inappropriate it is for them as an adult to go into the opposite sex facilities.

[YetAnotherSpartacus]

women dismissing others breast feeding experiences, and basic facts

Yep, some really nasty comments from a few posters who completely disregard the needs of many, many women for privacy when breast feeding and who wilfully minimise the distress of these women when they say they need spaces away from men to do so because of privacy and safety. Also, a few posters who accuse women of lying about their activism for and recollections of women’s only spaces. Nasty.

[orchid220]

@YetAnotherSpartacus

women dismissing others breast feeding experiences, and basic facts

Yep, some really nasty comments from a few posters who completely disregard the needs of many, many women for privacy when breast feeding and who wilfully minimise the distress of these women when they say they need spaces away from men to do so because of privacy and safety. Also, a few posters who accuse women of lying about their activism for and recollections of women’s only spaces. Nasty.

I haven't disregarded the needs of women who would like privacy when breastfeeding. I just think that if the room is also baby changing (as in the OP) then it shouldn't be women only. Anyone who thinks it should be is disregarding women’s right to share childcare and is not actually helping women at all.

[honeylulu]

When I had my first (17 years ago so may be different now) John Lewis had a parents room with separate breastfeeding and bottle feeding sub-rooms. You would have thought that a good way of addressing the issue but in one of my first visits i was sitting in the breastfeeding food with two other mums when a man pulled the curtain open and wandered in. Turned out he was the husband of one of the women who gave a simpering smile and said "it's OK, he's a GP" as if that made it all right. The other woman snapped back "well he should know better then!". I was gobsmacked. He did leave, though not immediately and neither of them apologised.

[EddietheEagle]

@honeylulu

When I had my first (17 years ago so may be different now) John Lewis had a parents room with separate breastfeeding and bottle feeding sub-rooms. You would have thought that a good way of addressing the issue but in one of my first visits i was sitting in the breastfeeding food with two other mums when a man pulled the curtain open and wandered in. Turned out he was the husband of one of the women who gave a simpering smile and said "it's OK, he's a GP" as if that made it all right. The other woman snapped back "well he should know better then!". I was gobsmacked. He did leave, though not immediately and neither of them apologised.

Omg!!! I'm glad someone snapped back that he should know better!! What sense of entitlement!!

[Delphinium20]

This thread reminds me that consent involves all parties. A few women cannot consent on behalf of all women.

[DdraigGoch]

@SamanthaCaine

Sounds like sexist patronising b'shit. What a horrible attitude. Not you obviously but is awful if this is what HV's are trained. Or is this just her personal opinion?

It's treating the father like a child. "Now then Tommy, it's your sister's birthday and we've got a very special job for you [so that you don't have a tantrum because she's the centre of attention]".

Granted to look at some threads on these MN there are plenty of man-children about, but surely we can aim a little higher.

[RufustheFloralmissingreindeer]

Im glad this wasn’t a thing when ds1 was born

he’d have been fatherless if his dad had mansplained breastfeeding to me

the midwife told him that hydration was paramount so when ds1 cried dh would get up and bring him to me and then pop down to get me a glass of water (which i was too frightened to drink in case i dropped it on ds1 head when he was feeding)

[DdraigGoch]

@bythere

@user1483646497 That mindset has never made sense to me either. People don't want a young child in the opposite sex room but they don't comprehend how much more inappropriate it is for them as an adult to go into the opposite sex facilities.

Even worse if individual cubicles were available for him so he didn't even have that excuse.

[mathanxiety]

One side has been laughing at women, making snide comments, purposely misunderstanding why FF babies might also need a quiet space to feed, advocated for photographing and verbally abusing men using spaces they’re able to use, calling any woman here disagreeing that all family rooms are BF rooms men or misogynists.

You're clearly very serious here, and you're determined not to admit that men don't belong in a space where women are going to be using their naked breasts to feed their babies.

Unbelievable.

It's time for women to all take to the shoe section of department stores and occupy the benches there to breastfeed their babies. Or just sit cross legged on the floor pretty much anywhere, and breastfeed their babies. Maybe that would result in a clarification of what the various spaces in the shop are for?

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

I would not have challenged him (how could I if he's allowed) to be there) but I will not use changing facilities again. This is what happens when single sex spaces are quietly shelved and made inclusive. Women lose.

High street shops will lose too. Why trek round the high street when you don't feel comfortable trying anything on?

[cosystripysocks]

@mathanxiety

One side has been laughing at women, making snide comments, purposely misunderstanding why FF babies might also need a quiet space to feed, advocated for photographing and verbally abusing men using spaces they’re able to use, calling any woman here disagreeing that all family rooms are BF rooms men or misogynists.

You're clearly very serious here, and you're determined not to admit that men don't belong in a space where women are going to be using their naked breasts to feed their babies.

Unbelievable.

It's time for women to all take to the shoe section of department stores and occupy the benches there to breastfeed their babies. Or just sit cross legged on the floor pretty much anywhere, and breastfeed their babies. Maybe that would result in a clarification of what the various spaces in the shop are for?

How old are you and when was the last time you breastfed? "A space where women are going to be using their naked breasts to feed their babies" is potentially anywhere. Any room or outdoor space in any place you can think of. It's the law that we're allowed to breastfeed anywhere we like and THAT is a hard fought for right. Women HAVE occupied public spaces and breastfed there as protest.
You ARE allowed to breastfeed on the benches in the shoe section of department stores or sit cross legged on the floor anywhere you like and do it. It wouldn't result in any clarification of what the various parts of the shop are for, or it shouldn't.

[orchid220]

I suspect that most of the posters arguing that feeding/changing facilities are
or should be “women only” spaces have not had children for a very long time or breastfed, if at all including OP. The fact that many are also on threads regarding trans issues and are blaming Stonewall for the fact that changing facilities are “family rooms” rather than recognising that women themselves want men to be involved in childcare and have campaigned for this to happen says it all.

[ShrillBill]

Really, is that what you think? Many women who don't have access to single sex facilities have to stay at home. Some are in coercive or controlling relationships. Those women are invisible to you, You've decided they don't matter, and that's the definition of privilege.

Its very simple, we just want separate facilities for women who need single sex facilities.
If you need your DH to massage your breasts while you feed, or you are a man who wants to feed his child, do it in a mixed sex space.