Page 25 | Men in women’s spaces

BrightSaturn · 2022-12-30T02:22:37+00:00

Just using this to rant really… 2 times in the past month I have encountered men in women only spaces. 1. I went to a feeding room to breastfeed my daughter in a shopping centre. I walked in and there were two young women in there changing their babies and one of their boyfriends just taking up one of the only chairs just sitting there, sitting using his phone. It’s a small room with 3 chairs in. I didn’t know what to do so I thought I’ll just sit down and get ready slowly and hopefully they’ll leave. I have fed in public but this was a small room so I felt vulnerable and like he shouldn’t be there and I didn’t want to lift my top up whilst he was sitting basically opposite me so I eventually asked if he could leave the room, they looked annoyed but thankfully he did go, after she looked at him and said “it’s up to you”… 1. I went into a changing room in a shop the other day with my mum, imagine a big room with seats in the middle and curtained dividers all round the outside. My mum was only trying on cardigans so really she just needed a mirror but in the middle on a seat was a boy about 17/18 years old. His girlfriend was trying on clothes. I couldn’t believe it! It wasn’t even doors on the changing rooms, just curtains. Why he thought this was acceptable I have no idea. Again I felt vulnerable and this time I didn’t have the confidence to ask him to leave. If my mum had been actually changing I would have probably found a shop assistant but still it’s not fair that we have to ask them to leave, he should not have been there in the first place! aibu to think women’s spaces are being invaded more and more? How can we stop this from happening?

CoralreefBex · 30/12/2022 19:57

roarfeckingroarr · 30/12/2022 19:55

@CoralreefBex then I plan to start campaigning for breastfeeding rooms, where women can breastfeed safely away from men

As you should, good luck and I hope you get it

roarfeckingroarr · 30/12/2022 19:59

What utter bollocks @CoralreefBex

I'm still young(ish), with a 2 year old and a baby due in a couple of weeks.

What's your opposition to women having places they feel safe to breastfeed away from men? Why are you so invested in eroding women only spaces?

I breastfed my first until he was 2 and will breastfeed my second. Personally, I'll whip out a tit anywhere, couldn't care less, but many women don't feel comfortable in public, around men. What about minority women who wouldn't be able to breastfeed in public with strange men around?

cosystripysocks · 30/12/2022 20:02

CoralreefBex · 30/12/2022 19:42

This thread is frustrating with so many posters just being wilfully ignorant.

Feeding rooms and parent rooms are not womens only spaces.

posters claiming all parent rooms used to be mothers rooms are quite simply insane, many places never had any rooms for feeding, mothers only or not and are a new thing in many centres and shops.

Secondly even if a mothers or breastfeeding only room was rebranded as a family or general feeding room, it’s no longer a womens only space so it still doesn’t matter what your view is, you can’t decide someone who is now able to use a space is unreasonable for using it.

My closest trampoline park used to run sessions for older children with SEN, these were great for DD, they’ve recently opened this up to all children with SEN, this means we no longer go as I am always worried about her hurting smaller children, do you know who I don’t blame? The younger children for using a service they are now entitled to use or their parents for bringing them, things change, sometimes for the better and sometimes not. What I am now doing is actively asking the park to reinstate older sessions for children with SEN, or to put measures in place to separate the trampolines so older children can play and younger children stay safe.

This is what those who feel they need a separate BF space need to do, ask for it, most if not all the family and feeding rooms I’ve been to have had curtained areas within them for BF mothers. If yours doesn’t have this then ask. It’s really not that difficult.

Unfortunately we are in a period of shifting mindsets, where many women aren’t as phased by male presence, fathers are taking a far more active role in parenting and old fashioned views about men in maternity wards is being challenged, this will always then lead to an argument on whose view matters most, happened recently at our local hospital where I managed to petition for partners (male or female) to be allowed overnight again. It was a long standing policy in our trust for partners to be able to stay overnight, and it was invaluable when DD was born years ago, I recently had our second child and was told due to complaints the trust were banning overnight stays for any visitors. I put in a FOI request and found out it was 5 women, 5 who complained and took something many women found valuable away, after I ran a petition and 9500 women locally all signed that they wanted the policy changed back the trust has relented and has gone back to the old policy. The wants of those 5 women don’t trump the 9500, and thankfully this went through, as when I was giving birth to DS 6 weeks ago many women were left with little to no care overnight due to the hospital having declared a critical incident, there was 1 midwife for 32 women, those with partners (or relatives in general) were able to have their babies passed to them quickly to feed, those who were alone were left for a shockingly long time.

Men taking an active role in parenting benefits women, there is a reason companies have adopted feeding spaces or family rooms, this benefits everyone not just women. If you are uncomfortable feeding in public you are in a minority (according to many studies into this in the UK) and therefore need to accept that.

Oh my god thank you.

user1483646497 · 30/12/2022 20:02

I haven't moaned about men using mixed-sex facilities? In my example it was a room marked 'women only' and an antenatal day-assessment unit, which whilst wasn't strictly women only, I also don't think a strange man should be able to stare at my nether regions while I'm being examined! OP also mentions that the changing room was a women's changing room. If a room is mixed-sex then fine whatever, but if a room is marked as specifically for women then no, men should not be in there.

I'm curious what you're meaning by 'old-fashioned' and 'older posters' - how do you know any of our ages? It's not about being prudish, it's about safety.

user1483646497 · 30/12/2022 20:03

that was intended to reply to @CoralreefBex

CoralreefBex · 30/12/2022 20:04

roarfeckingroarr · 30/12/2022 19:59

What utter bollocks @CoralreefBex

I'm still young(ish), with a 2 year old and a baby due in a couple of weeks.

What's your opposition to women having places they feel safe to breastfeed away from men? Why are you so invested in eroding women only spaces?

I breastfed my first until he was 2 and will breastfeed my second. Personally, I'll whip out a tit anywhere, couldn't care less, but many women don't feel comfortable in public, around men. What about minority women who wouldn't be able to breastfeed in public with strange men around?

When have I said I am against women having Bf spaces, I have repeatedly said if that’s what you want then ask for it, many family rooms do have separate areas for Bf which is great.

no one is eroding a womens only space, the space referenced in the OP isn’t a womens only space.

The minority have never and should never rule the majority. Women who are uncomfortable feeding in public are a minority, if you want to change something then go through the correct channels, don’t bemoan someone for using a space they’re allowed to use.

roarfeckingroarr · 30/12/2022 20:05

If women only rooms might help encourage breastfeeding, that can only be a good thing

user1483646497 · 30/12/2022 20:06

The man in the feeding room in the OP was not feeding a child, he was scrolling through his phone. How is this an example of a man needing to use a feeding room?

CoralreefBex · 30/12/2022 20:07

user1483646497 · 30/12/2022 20:02

I haven't moaned about men using mixed-sex facilities? In my example it was a room marked 'women only' and an antenatal day-assessment unit, which whilst wasn't strictly women only, I also don't think a strange man should be able to stare at my nether regions while I'm being examined! OP also mentions that the changing room was a women's changing room. If a room is mixed-sex then fine whatever, but if a room is marked as specifically for women then no, men should not be in there.

I'm curious what you're meaning by 'old-fashioned' and 'older posters' - how do you know any of our ages? It's not about being prudish, it's about safety.

It’s not the changing room people are picking up on here, it’s her first example of a feeding room which isn’t a womens only space. So it’s not being invaded, merely used by those who are able to use it.

And the most vocal posters have been very clear about their ages, referring to petitions they were part of in the 80’s, ‘things were different when mine were little 30 years ago’

And it’s not about safety, if you want a special sex segregated space and it’s currently set up for both sexes then ask for an additional space to be created, don’t moan when people use something they’re entitled to use - that’s just bizarre.

CoralreefBex · 30/12/2022 20:08

user1483646497 · 30/12/2022 20:06

The man in the feeding room in the OP was not feeding a child, he was scrolling through his phone. How is this an example of a man needing to use a feeding room?

It doesn’t matter if he needs to use it, he is entitled to use it, just as much as a woman playing on her phone.

It’s a case of an inconsiderate person using the room, not men invading womens spaces.

TofuonToast · 30/12/2022 20:08

Sillysausage2 · 30/12/2022 02:42

My husband would accompany me to feeding spaces when my littlest was small. I would feed and then he would change him, I was a bit uncomfortable feeding in public to start so he was my bit of supper. He was very supportive of all women feeding so I’d hate to think of some one feeling uncomfortable

I literally can’t think of anything worse. A man ‘supporting’ women in a breastfeeding space. The utter ignorance.

user1483646497 · 30/12/2022 20:09

So if a feeding room is mixed-sex, is it ok for a man who is not feeding a child to use it just to sit on his phone, as in the OP?

IAmWomanHearMeRoar1 · 30/12/2022 20:09

CoralreefBex · 30/12/2022 20:07

It’s not the changing room people are picking up on here, it’s her first example of a feeding room which isn’t a womens only space. So it’s not being invaded, merely used by those who are able to use it.

And the most vocal posters have been very clear about their ages, referring to petitions they were part of in the 80’s, ‘things were different when mine were little 30 years ago’

And it’s not about safety, if you want a special sex segregated space and it’s currently set up for both sexes then ask for an additional space to be created, don’t moan when people use something they’re entitled to use - that’s just bizarre.

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Interesting that you only just registered and went straight to this thread and a trans thread.... hmmm.

You are gaslighting. The space was originally a womans only space. The men who wanted to use it should have petitioned for their OWN space, instead of taking ours.

user1483646497 · 30/12/2022 20:10

@CoralreefBex if he's not feeding a child then he's not entitled to use it. Otherwise any old man could just go in there.

5128gap · 30/12/2022 20:11

Tryingformore1 · 30/12/2022 15:37

No they don’t, these spaces are for families, they’ve already got their spaces. If you want a special one you need to ask for it.

Again with pretending every family or feeding room was once a mothers room.

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When shops began setting aside rooms for the care of babies, they were called 'mother and baby rooms'. They first appeared in places like Mothercare and the idea grew from there.
Not only do I and others clearly recall this, and what they were called, but if you have any knowledge of attitudes to parenting roles back then, you'd know it would barely have occurred that anyone but mothers would be using the facilities, so why on earth would they not have been called mothers rooms?
Over time, the name of the rooms have changed to 'parents rooms', and any such spaces built more recently will no doubt have always been called that.
But the titular history of one specific room in one specific centre isnt the point of debate, it's the history of the rooms as a concept that matters.
At the point such rooms were concieved of they were called mother and baby rooms in the UK.
(If you Google mumsnet mother and baby rooms by the way, there's a post from 2007 asking about 'mother and baby rooms' in Milton Keynes, so at least one other woman knew them as that.)

user1483646497 · 30/12/2022 20:12

And it absolutely is about safety. Especially for women who have had traumatic experiences with men in the very spaces where they are meant to be safe from it!

CoralreefBex · 30/12/2022 20:12

user1483646497 · 30/12/2022 20:09

So if a feeding room is mixed-sex, is it ok for a man who is not feeding a child to use it just to sit on his phone, as in the OP?

It’s rude and inconsiderate but not invading womens spaces.

They’d be unreasonable for being rude, not for invading a space for women.

Do you really not see the difference?

Blackandwhites · 30/12/2022 20:13

IAmWomanHearMeRoar1 · 30/12/2022 20:09

Interesting that you only just registered and went straight to this thread and a trans thread.... hmmm.

You are gaslighting. The space was originally a womans only space. The men who wanted to use it should have petitioned for their OWN space, instead of taking ours.

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It really doesn’t matter what it was originally though. My kids Victorian built primary school still has ‘boys’ and ‘girls’ engraved in the stone above the entrances. One is used for older kids now, one for younger. Guess what - times change.

user1483646497 · 30/12/2022 20:14

IAmWomanHearMeRoar1 · 30/12/2022 20:09

Interesting that you only just registered and went straight to this thread and a trans thread.... hmmm.

You are gaslighting. The space was originally a womans only space. The men who wanted to use it should have petitioned for their OWN space, instead of taking ours.

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Couldn't agree more. Why should women have to campaign to have our own spaces back!

CoralreefBex · 30/12/2022 20:14

IAmWomanHearMeRoar1 · 30/12/2022 20:09

Interesting that you only just registered and went straight to this thread and a trans thread.... hmmm.

You are gaslighting. The space was originally a womans only space. The men who wanted to use it should have petitioned for their OWN space, instead of taking ours.

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This space wasn’t originally a womens space, unless you know the specific shopping Center the OP is referring to.

No one has taken anything from you.

CoralreefBex · 30/12/2022 20:15

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

IAmWomanHearMeRoar1 · 30/12/2022 20:15

Blackandwhites · 30/12/2022 20:13

It really doesn’t matter what it was originally though. My kids Victorian built primary school still has ‘boys’ and ‘girls’ engraved in the stone above the entrances. One is used for older kids now, one for younger. Guess what - times change.

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The need for women to have our human rights and single sex spaces will NEVER change.

IAmWomanHearMeRoar1 · 30/12/2022 20:16

CoralreefBex · 30/12/2022 20:14

This space wasn’t originally a womens space, unless you know the specific shopping Center the OP is referring to.

No one has taken anything from you.

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These spaces WERE originally spaces for women, you are being disingenuous or are on glue.

CoralreefBex · 30/12/2022 20:16

Blackandwhites · 30/12/2022 20:13

It really doesn’t matter what it was originally though. My kids Victorian built primary school still has ‘boys’ and ‘girls’ engraved in the stone above the entrances. One is used for older kids now, one for younger. Guess what - times change.

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This in spades!

My golf club used to only let men play, and did so up until less than 10 years ago, should I be moaned at for joining up because it used to be a male only space.

user1483646497 · 30/12/2022 20:16

CoralreefBex · 30/12/2022 20:12

It’s rude and inconsiderate but not invading womens spaces.

They’d be unreasonable for being rude, not for invading a space for women.

Do you really not see the difference?

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It is using a space for something for which it isn't intended. Otherwise couldn't a gang of teenage lads go & hang out in there if they feel like it, seeing as it's for anyone! And I think it's etiquette not to have phones (with potential recording devices out) while women are in a vulnerable state.