Men in women’s spaces

[BrightSaturn]

Just using this to rant really…

2 times in the past month I have encountered men in women only spaces.

1. I went to a feeding room to breastfeed my daughter in a shopping centre. I walked in and there were two young women in there changing their babies and one of their boyfriends just taking up one of the only chairs just sitting there, sitting using his phone. It’s a small room with 3 chairs in. I didn’t know what to do so I thought I’ll just sit down and get ready slowly and hopefully they’ll leave. I have fed in public but this was a small room so I felt vulnerable and like he shouldn’t be there and I didn’t want to lift my top up whilst he was sitting basically opposite me so I eventually asked if he could leave the room, they looked annoyed but thankfully he did go, after she looked at him and said “it’s up to you”…
2. I went into a changing room in a shop the other day with my mum, imagine a big room with seats in the middle and curtained dividers all round the outside. My mum was only trying on cardigans so really she just needed a mirror but in the middle on a seat was a boy about 17/18 years old. His girlfriend was trying on clothes. I couldn’t believe it! It wasn’t even doors on the changing rooms, just curtains. Why he thought this was acceptable I have no idea. Again I felt vulnerable and this time I didn’t have the confidence to ask him to leave. If my mum had been actually changing I would have probably found a shop assistant but still it’s not fair that we have to ask them to leave, he should not have been there in the first place!

aibu to think women’s spaces are being invaded more and more? How can we stop this from happening?

So what would you do if you were a single parent with no partner?

They are Mr Obnoxious and Mr Clueless if they remain in a woman only space. Thankfully they do get booted out over night.

All women have an equal right to dignity and privacy in a single sex space. Visitors are removed over night for this. Your need for your husband only benefits you and potentially traumatises other women. At the least, it makes them uncomfortable. It’s really not that difficult to understand. You may not like it, but forcing women to accept strange men around them at their most vulnerable is not just unkind - it’s cruel. The easiest solution is instead to have a hard line to maintain that dignity and privacy.

You do not need your husband but you say you need support. So you have two options - If you want to have your husband pay for private care with a private room. Otherwise hire a female Doula.

I understand why you didn't want a man just sat on his phone directly across from you feeding in a little room. And I agree he should have moved once you started to unclip your bra etc.. However, if I went into this room and there were changing tables and a man changing his child's nappy, I wouldn't see that as encroaching on my space, especially as there are rarely changing tables in mens toilets. If it is supposed to be for breastfeeding only it should be labelled as such, with comfy chairs and magazines, and the changing tables placed somewhere else. I wouldn't want to feed my baby sat next to other children getting a nappy change, it's one step away from being expected to breastfeed while sat on the toilet.

The changing room thing I completely understand. The bench for bored husbands and boyfriends should be somewhere out in the middle of the shop, not in the middle of the womens changing rooms.

@cosystripysocks

I am talking about the daytime, men were booted out at night, and quite rightly so.

I was just pointing out how vulnerable women are in this situation, and how Mr Obnoxious and Mr Clueless don't help other women who are trying to cope with all sorts, and for some, for the first time.

@cosystripysocks I made the same point earlier. It drives me mad. Why are so many women to needy, so selfish, they put their want to have their bloke there above other women's privacy, feelings, dignity and safety

There is no room for dads in a breastfeeding room, but a parenting room, of course dads should be in there! Getting dads as fully involved in the parenting of their child as possible is not ‘throwing them under a bus’. It’s in the best interests of women!

How many other threads are there here where the dad swans off playing golf or down the pub with their mates, leaving all parental responsibilities to the mothers? Loads. We need to make them realise at every opportunity that parenting is an equal job if we don’t want to be left parenting every second of every day while the dads do as they please.

I have ptsd and was going home hours post emergency section with dc2 because the thought of staying on the postnatal ward in what felt like such an unsafe environment was impossible for me. The first midwife suggested dh stay...the second got a consultant who organised a private room. I fell asleep at one point in the night and woke up screaming loud enough to disturb the bays nearest to my room. The reason I woke up...a man yelling at his partner in the corridor triggered me.

The answer to postnatal wards is more staff not the presence of random men.

In the aftermath of the event which caused my ptsd, I couldn't stand to be around my dad let alone any other man. Even now dh has to shower before coming anywhere near me after exercise because the smell of male sweat takes me straight back.

Totally misread @cosystripysocks .

Men should not be on postnatal wards at night. During the day is bad enough.

I've just checked my local NHS Trust policy for visiting and it looks as though all visitors have to leave at 5pm, I completely agree with this.

So Mr Obnoxious and Mr Clueless have to leave, hooray!

hang on, why is no one getting an enclosed post natal space? Even labour ward was our own room.
I was in an enclosed space the whole time with DH, and the only time we crossed paths with anyone was going up and down the corridor, which was full of new dads taking their little ones for a walk.

I thought nothing of it.

It's often not enforced @Willowswood

I also had a private room but I had a 48 hour labour and wasn't in a state to look after a newborn baby on my own overnight, so I think I was in a private room for my partner to be able to stay. Not 100% sure though.

I had my own room to labour in (of course!), but was then on a small post natal ward, which was a bay of 6.

It was a very small midwife led unit. I have no idea if there were any side rooms. I went home after 1 night as didn't really need to be there and my subsequent 2 babies I went home after 2 hours as didn't need to stay.

Oh really, ah ok.
It was enforced when I had my first baby, I can remember the men being asked to leave but I can understand it probably depends on who is on and also other hospitals may be more relaxed about it.

I completely understand how you feel. When I was bf I really struggled with confidence in doing it in public. I had to use shields for a few weeks too and felt like I was faffing too much and overexposing, usually milk squirting as baby cried and I’d be sweating because I got in such a state. I know it sounds silly but I was so worried people would stare and I would be judged.

I found those rooms a God send where I didn’t feel uncomfortable at all, could take my time and wasn’t getting myself in a complete state. Having men in there (not feeding) would have made me really uncomfortable.

@Mamamia32 @Willowswood thank you ladies.
I must’ve just lucked out, I had a very very fast labour like I’d had an induction or something which caused some damage so maybe it was that

thank you for sharing your a bit about your birth stories with me

Completely agree that men should not be in women's spaces. When I was in labour and still on the day assessment unit, the curtain was left slightly open and I looked up to see another woman's partner having a good old gawp in. He looked more horrified than perving, but nevertheless - not appropriate although i was in too much pain & distress to make a fuss.
I also remember going back 15 or so years when I was BF DS, there used to be a room in a certain shopping centre that actually said 'Baby feeding room - women only'. Men just couldn't bear the thought of women having space to themselves though and on more than one occasion, there were male partners in there. It made me really uncomfortable as a nervous young first time mum as in those days I struggled to breastfeed without having my whole boob out.

Regardless of any of it, if a space is marked as just for women there is NO reason a man should be in there and no woman has the right to give another woman's safe space away.

This thread is frustrating with so many posters just being wilfully ignorant.

Feeding rooms and parent rooms are not womens only spaces.

posters claiming all parent rooms used to be mothers rooms are quite simply insane, many places never had any rooms for feeding, mothers only or not and are a new thing in many centres and shops.

Secondly even if a mothers or breastfeeding only room was rebranded as a family or general feeding room, it’s no longer a womens only space so it still doesn’t matter what your view is, you can’t decide someone who is now able to use a space is unreasonable for using it.

My closest trampoline park used to run sessions for older children with SEN, these were great for DD, they’ve recently opened this up to all children with SEN, this means we no longer go as I am always worried about her hurting smaller children, do you know who I don’t blame? The younger children for using a service they are now entitled to use or their parents for bringing them, things change, sometimes for the better and sometimes not. What I am now doing is actively asking the park to reinstate older sessions for children with SEN, or to put measures in place to separate the trampolines so older children can play and younger children stay safe.

This is what those who feel they need a separate BF space need to do, ask for it, most if not all the family and feeding rooms I’ve been to have had curtained areas within them for BF mothers. If yours doesn’t have this then ask. It’s really not that difficult.

Unfortunately we are in a period of shifting mindsets, where many women aren’t as phased by male presence, fathers are taking a far more active role in parenting and old fashioned views about men in maternity wards is being challenged, this will always then lead to an argument on whose view matters most, happened recently at our local hospital where I managed to petition for partners (male or female) to be allowed overnight again. It was a long standing policy in our trust for partners to be able to stay overnight, and it was invaluable when DD was born years ago, I recently had our second child and was told due to complaints the trust were banning overnight stays for any visitors. I put in a FOI request and found out it was 5 women, 5 who complained and took something many women found valuable away, after I ran a petition and 9500 women locally all signed that they wanted the policy changed back the trust has relented and has gone back to the old policy. The wants of those 5 women don’t trump the 9500, and thankfully this went through, as when I was giving birth to DS 6 weeks ago many women were left with little to no care overnight due to the hospital having declared a critical incident, there was 1 midwife for 32 women, those with partners (or relatives in general) were able to have their babies passed to them quickly to feed, those who were alone were left for a shockingly long time.

Men taking an active role in parenting benefits women, there is a reason companies have adopted feeding spaces or family rooms, this benefits everyone not just women. If you are uncomfortable feeding in public you are in a minority (according to many studies into this in the UK) and therefore need to accept that.

We need breastfeeding areas. Mothercare used to have lovely breastfeeding feeding rooms that gave me the confidence to bfeed outside the home and eventually bf most places. No I couldn't have fed infront of a man.

I was in a big baby changing/feeding room once in a shopping centre and I was alone with my baby. I don't usually use feeding rooms but after a change I noticed the chairs so decided to stay and give baby a b/f.

It had toilet cubicles in it and a man walked in, looked at me and went into the cubicle (no kids with him).

He sat in there and had a massive shit that stank to high heaven, came out and started smiling at me. Was so creepy, he left without washing his hands and I had to sit there in his stench until my baby had finished.

I'm usually pretty tough/street wise but I felt really vulnerable at the moment.

Not allowing men in a breastfeeding room is not preventing men from taking an active parental role.

If you're bottle feeding you can do it anywhere.

This isn't about being old-fashioned or believing men shouldn't have an active role in parenting. It is about safe spaces for women, which are absolutely essential. The ideal solution would be to have a mixed-sex feeding area, where women could go if they wanted their male partners with them, and a women-only feeding area. And they absolutely were a thing years ago, I've no idea now as my children are no longer of an age where I would be using such facilities.

Good thing no one is doing that then, this isn’t a breastfeeding room. It was a feeding or parents room.

and no sometimes you can’t do it anywhere, or are you will fully ignoring the many posters who have children who need the quiet to feed. Also these rooms have heating facilities for bottles and changing too.

@CoralreefBex then I plan to start campaigning for breastfeeding rooms, where women can breastfeed safely away from men

It does seem to align with being old fashioned, it’s no surprise those most vocal on here about this being terrible that a man uses a mixed sex space they think should be for women only are older posters.

If you want a women’s only area and the only facilities available are mixed sex then ask for one, don’t moan about men using a space they’re able and entitled to use. That’s just silly