To still have not forgiven my dad for leaving us?

[buildingourdreams]

I am 25 now and have 2 dc of my own. When I was only 10 my dad suddenly left us, me and mum had our suspicions that it was this younger girl he worked with although he denied it. He moved in with friends into a house share, (I mean who leaves their family for a house share in their 30's, tragic.) Mum wanted him back, we all did. so after a few months he did agree to come back at one point but it was obvious to everyone he did not want to be there and this only lasted a few weeks until he upped and left again. This time for good. Weeks after, he finally admitted to Mum he had a girlfriend and low and behold it was this younger girl who we are pretty sure he would have been seeing the whole time. After this I used to see him most weekends for about a year but eventually I told him he would have to choose between having me in his life or his girlfriend, he chose his girlfriend. So I refused to see him anymore. They were engaged in about a year at the most then had a new daughter only 2 years after he left us (I mean wtf who even does that), and got married shortly after. Mum said it was literally as soon as their divorce came through, disgusting.

My "dad" is still married to OW and has two girls one is 13 and one is 8. and also OWs son who is now 16 so what a nice happy family. I used to look at their social media all the time, OW's and the older kids. But now I have them all blocked as it makes me too angry. He used to pay child support until I started work and emails me every so often, and sends me money for my DC birthdays and my birthday and Christmas. I did tell him when I was pregnant and when my LOs were born and I sometimes ask him for money (😳 ) but I don't want anything else off him.

DH thinks I should at least talk to him as I never got his side of things, he had similar with his dad and after a difficult few years reconciled a few years ago, now they are best mates. But his dad did not betray his family by having a brand new set of kids, he is with the same lady but never married. I just think too much water has gone under the bridge though and especially now I am a mum I will never understand how anyone could leave their own kids. But what if I regret it one day?

Maybe the OW lived with her parents and they could not move in together? Or they wanted to wait not to look suspicious and he didnt want the mother to know he had an affair and moving in with the OW would make it obvious, or they were tring to sort out some options for later (which clearly worked?). Lots of reasons he has not moved in straight away.

Or she wasn’t the OW but someone he met later.

But the opening post said it was the woman they thought it was all along which the dad had denied?

Even if she was the OW then that should have been kept between the adults, they should not have dragged a 10 year old into it.

When I heard Matt Hancock talking about falling in love I couldn’t help think, nope, you made a choice. You felt an attraction and you chose to follow it. Acting on love is a choice and I will never understand a person who chooses attraction/love over their dc. So many people seem to find it easy to walk away from their dc and I just don’t understand it at all.

I’m not saying you have to stay in an unhappy relationship but there’s a difference and walking away and starting a new family always sucks for the first set of dc.

I’m not saying you have to stay in an unhappy relationship but there’s a difference and walking away and starting a new family always sucks for the first set of dc.

A bit like OP's mum did when she took OP's older brothers away from their dad?

Exactly.

After my dad left the first time mum kept asking if it was the girl from work and he denied it.

But the evidence (whether it's right or wrong that I saw it) - points to them being together / dating right from when my dad first left us. He did not live with her and her child though he lived with friends.

It was a few weeks after my dad left the second time that he admitted he had a gf and that it was the same girl from work. This was maybe 6/8 months after the first time he left.

When I was still seeing dad he never tried to get me to meet OW or anything (I obviously did not want to anyway and would not have even considered it) and he did not talk about her other than initally admitting to mum via text / phone he was indeed in a relationship with her. The first time we met after that - mum came with me for moral support (we wanted to meet him some where neutral not at our home) and the first thing she did was went up to him and slapped him round the face.

But anyway back to the ultimatum I gave - as I found it so disgusting and upsetting that he chose OW over us that's why I gave him the ultimatum.

This must be a reverse. Surely you don't think it's OK that your mother assaulted your father in front of you? She's lucky he didn't call the police.

The first time we met after that - mum came with me for moral support (we wanted to meet him some where neutral not at our home) and the first thing she did was went up to him and slapped him round the face

so you went to meet your dad and his gf for the first time, your mum went with you for “moral support”, and the first thing she did is slap him?

fucks sake love can you not see how wrong that is?

OP, I think first of all you’ve been great in sticking out this thread, reading and reflecting on the replies, which as you can see (myself included) a lot are encouraging you to try counseling and listening to your dad’s version.

Can I suggest counseling first maybe (as it is much harder and of course very invasive of privacy to share on a public forum).
Try maybe not to see it as ‘needing it in a medical sense’ (which for instance is my case, although was my free choice in addition to do the most important responsible thing which is taking my medication - I’m fine with it, I just wished to try and see if it could benefit really, I didn’t overthink it). It doesn’t even have to be more than a couple of talk sessions (that’s actually what I did, I had specific worries that I wished to talk about then when we’d discussed them, I didn’t feel the need anymore).

Its not much different than sharing here really, except more privacy. It doesn’t have to be intense.
You have specific questions : should you listen to your dad’s side for instance.
I was taken into care at 10 (but by family), and mine was if, how, when to share or not with my own children, how to explain without projecting anxiety on them. Maybe you could try and reframe it this way ? I honestly wasn’t interested that much in discussing whatever went through my parents minds, I know the general stuff, life can be messy, it’s just too long ago to matter to me.

As it still clearly does matter to you, it might be worth exploring : what would you think about a couple of talk sessions, making a decision about whether or not to contact him (or not decide yet), and most importantly deciding how to share with your children in a healthy way ? An experienced child counselor can help with that. You can choose to keep your current position or not, at least you’ll benefit from hopefully not torturing yourself with these questions, and advice on how to best explain to your children.

I wish you the best, it’s great that you’re clearly still trying and responding

OP my heart really goes out to you. I think your dad behaved badly if he did cheat, it might be impossible to know for certain. But your mum has (intentionally or not) totally manipulated you and drawn you into an adult drama that she should have protected you from.

That slap, in front of you, at such a delicate moment, is utterly shocking behaviour. She was meant to be there for moral support! Moral support means being a calm and collected person, who can encourage the child and help her with her confused and conflicted emotions. Instead of getting support, you got to witness one person you loved being violent to another person you loved.

It isn't a reverse :( . I am actually re reading my posts and some of it actually is starting to sound a bit mad but I promise you all this all happened.

I think you mum has not helped situation at all. She has used her hurt as a weapon against ex to alienate you against your dad

I believe you OP. I grew up in a household where some serious dysfunction was swept under the carpet, and I know how it is to just accept a version that makes sense as a child (or more accurately, a version that allows you to maintain a positive view of your attachment figure, in your case, your mum). And then as I go through adulthood I get get all these moments of "oh. That wasn't normal was it." Or "oh. The way I always interpreted that makes no sense".

It's like relistening to pop songs you liked as a child and going "omg that line is about sex, I never realised." Or "omg my uncle convinced me that Haggis was an animal and I only just discovered they're not". Only about far more serious stuff :(

You don't have to forgive him ever OP. It's your decision and nobody else can make it for you. Of course he didn't have to stay in a relationship he was unhappy in, but what he did need to do was be a man about it and tell the truth. From someone who's been in a similar situation, you're better off without him. Block him and the other family members on all social media and move on with your own life. He made his choices, now you have chance to make yours. I chose not to forgive, nor forget, but also to no longer engage. I simply pretend my sperm donor is dead. Much easier.

@anonexhausted have you actually read the thread?

OP I really agree with others and totally commend you for sticking with this thread and reflecting on how this unravelled for you

I wholeheartedly believe that it is a parents responsibility to put the needs of their children before their own. In this instance, however hurt your mother was, the greater need here was for you to be given stability and two parents who continued to be there for you. Instead, your mother needed a shoulder to cry on, an outlet for her anger and to ensure you took her side.

Imagine if things had been different. Imagine if when he left, you didn't get shown any social media posts. Imagine your mother didn't confide in you her suspicions. Imagine she came with you to that meeting and acted civilly to your dad. Imagine when he left, she told you he still loved you and would always be your father. Imagine if, when you decided not to see him, she gently encouraged you and reminded you how much he loved you. This is what should have happened and although you may have harboured some doubts, I think you would have a very different relationship with your dad

Yes, he probably left as he had feelings for someone else but that doesn't happen if you're in a happy marriage (just as your mother left her first marriage). He left, tried to reconcile but couldn't, then waited several months before seeing this girl, never forced you to meet her, kept trying to see you, never spoke of her, still tried to maintain some sort of communication even after you rejected him and paid (and still does) his way.

Honestly the moment your mother started whispering toxic things to you (whether she intended to do it as revenge or not) your dad had no chance to recover a relationship

The first time we met after that - mum came with me for moral support (we wanted to meet him some where neutral not at our home) and the first thing she did was went up to him and slapped him round the face.

And this is just madness. I note the use of 'we' here. At 10 years old did YOU really decide you wanted to meet somewhere neutral or was that your mum? And did she insist on coming with you 'for your support'?

You have 2 DCs of your own now. Can you imagine splitting from their dad and, despite him being a decent father, constantly slagging him off to them? I imagine you'd likely want to protect them from any awfulness and ensure they still have a relationship with a loving father

Oh love, you’re stuck reacting to this like a child, because you weren’t given any support from your mum to do otherwise.

Your language… “wtf” about your dad inviting you to his wedding.

Theres no “wtf” about that. An objective adult can see that for the olive branch it was. It’s not even about expecting you’d ever go - it was a way of not sending the message that you weren’t welcome.

Imagine a man posting here, “AIBU to invite my estranged adult daughter to my wedding”. He’d get a hard time to justify he wasn’t an Arsehole, he’d get quizzed on better ways to reconnect with you… but I really believe the vote would firmly go with, you should invite her, to show you want her in your life.

It’s immature to “wtf” at that invitation, just as it’s immature to “wtf” to be sneery about his practical house share. I really think a therapist could help you bring your adult eyes to this.

As for your mum slapping him in front of… a poster earlier told me off for not being in the “Spirit” of the site, criticising your mother. I’m happy criticising her for that! She really really let you down. How was a 10/11yo ever supposed to feel they could continue a relationship with their dad, seeing that? I posted earlier - I don’t think your mum is unforgivable. Her mistakes were huge, but most things are forgivable. But I really think you need to examine her role in your father’s relationship with you.

You say he could have gone to court to force access… honestly (and you don’t have to write it here!) how do you think your mum would have reacted to that? Made you feel about going? Some men don’t go to court cos they don’t give a shit. Some don’t, because they don’t realise the situation will turn into permanent, and they think a young child being forced to go with a mother dripping poison would damage a future relationship even more.

I am the cheated upon XW. My children were inviting me to daddy’s new year party months after we split - because we never exposed them to the complexity of adult relationships.

He left your mom, not you. Then continued to have you on weekends until you gave him an ultimatum, which was completely unreasonable. And now seems like you only speak to him when you want money. Yeah he's a shitty person for cheating but I'm struggling to see your point here

No you don’t sound mad at all OP, I mentioned being taken into care at 10 - which ended up with family - this means I was removed from the environment, which you weren’t, and also if it helps I’m 32, and I think I struggled to process much more in my young adult years. Your reactions aren’t something to feel guilty about, but there are solutions. You may however feel guilty down the line if you inadvertently project your anxieties on your children : this is your opportunity to break the cycle, for you, and especially for them.

As others have said, you’re just starting to actually look at any of this through adult eyes.

As a 10/11 year old, of course you felt important as your mum shared information with you that she simply shouldn’t. There was no need for her to tell you anything about any adult conversations she’d had with your father about their relationship.

Can you imagine saying anything of the sort to your child? Telling them they needed your moral support and then using that opportunity to hit your child’s father?

Of course you can’t. Because it’s terrible parenting. I’m sure your mum was devastated and angry, but you deserved so much better than being dragged into this as her confidante.

I know I’ve been critical of taking money from your dad, but if you find that you are actually open to hearing his side of the story and seeing if you might be able to build some kind of relationship with him, it might be worth talking to him about whether he’d be ok with helping to pay for counselling for you/potentially alongside sessions with him. It all might be easier and emotionally safer for you if you had a counsellor to help navigate this stuff.

And it wouldn’t be taking advantage if you’re genuinely doing it to try to see what kind of relationship you might be able to have with him and the rest of your family (on his side). It may also be useful to have a counsellor to help you to think through how you can handle your mother, who seems likely to respond poorly to any attempt you might make to speak to your father and listen to his perspective.

It’s not something that you need to make a
decision on immediately. Take your time to think about what you want to do - what you feel is ok for you.

You’re dealing with some dreadful emotional baggage from your childhood here. And just starting to see how dysfunctional it was. It’s bloody hard to see this kind of family dysfunction because that’s what was normal for you - it does often come more to the fore when you have children yourself and find yourself feeling that you don’t want what happened to you for them.

I don't even see anyone from his side now

No one. Not even my gran. We stopped seeing them all when he left the second time. My mum was disgusted that my gran did not fall out with my dad for what he did. And that my gran seemed to welcomed dads OW with open arms.

What do you think your mum would do now if you decides to see your dad and his family?

what do your brother’s say about it? What are their memories?