To still have not forgiven my dad for leaving us?

[buildingourdreams]

I am 25 now and have 2 dc of my own. When I was only 10 my dad suddenly left us, me and mum had our suspicions that it was this younger girl he worked with although he denied it. He moved in with friends into a house share, (I mean who leaves their family for a house share in their 30's, tragic.) Mum wanted him back, we all did. so after a few months he did agree to come back at one point but it was obvious to everyone he did not want to be there and this only lasted a few weeks until he upped and left again. This time for good. Weeks after, he finally admitted to Mum he had a girlfriend and low and behold it was this younger girl who we are pretty sure he would have been seeing the whole time. After this I used to see him most weekends for about a year but eventually I told him he would have to choose between having me in his life or his girlfriend, he chose his girlfriend. So I refused to see him anymore. They were engaged in about a year at the most then had a new daughter only 2 years after he left us (I mean wtf who even does that), and got married shortly after. Mum said it was literally as soon as their divorce came through, disgusting.

My "dad" is still married to OW and has two girls one is 13 and one is 8. and also OWs son who is now 16 so what a nice happy family. I used to look at their social media all the time, OW's and the older kids. But now I have them all blocked as it makes me too angry. He used to pay child support until I started work and emails me every so often, and sends me money for my DC birthdays and my birthday and Christmas. I did tell him when I was pregnant and when my LOs were born and I sometimes ask him for money (😳 ) but I don't want anything else off him.

DH thinks I should at least talk to him as I never got his side of things, he had similar with his dad and after a difficult few years reconciled a few years ago, now they are best mates. But his dad did not betray his family by having a brand new set of kids, he is with the same lady but never married. I just think too much water has gone under the bridge though and especially now I am a mum I will never understand how anyone could leave their own kids. But what if I regret it one day?

I'm actually shocked a lot of people think I'm being unreasonable but then also glad some think I'm not. But at the same time I feel like I'm starting to maybe question some things now so I feel a bit confused

I voted YABU, but I don’t think it’s your fault you feel this way. I think both your parents have let you down in different ways - your dad did pursue his own happiness with seemingly little thought or care as to the impact on you, but your mum also gave you access to too much adult information that you weren’t mature enough to handle. So yes, YABU but I get why it’s come to this. And agree that seeking support could be helpful.

Yes so many people have too high expectations from children in these scenarios and then expect no impact on their emotional state during adulthood. Peoples emotions don't suddenly become adult and grown up at 21. I speak to 90 year olds that still have these feelings. You can go to therapy but rarely does it give you an epiphany if happiness.

Multiple women on Mumsnet have ex partners who have acted just like OP’s Dad in terms of having an affair and often worse in regard to the children (not staying in contact, not paying child support etc).

Almost every one of those women has been mainly concerned about how to minimise the effect on the children - they vent on here so they can slap a smile on their face and facilitate their children’s relationship with their father and even the OW because they know, as stated that a messy divorce scars kids and leaves to lifelong trauma. Therefore, since they love their children more than they want to hurt their ex, they do their best despite their pain to make sure the divorce and later co-parenting is not messy.

Is it fair that a woman has to compensate for a man’s poor behaviour? No, it is not. However, even a brief read of Mumsnet will show that women manage to do so day in, day out to protect their children.

The OP’s mother didn’t do that. She didn’t reassure the OP that her father hadn’t left her and that he still loved her. She didn’t make sure adult arguments were kept from the children and tell the OP she could love her father without being disloyal to her mother. She encouraged the breakdown of visitation rather than facilitating contact.

I’m not excusing the father having an affair but what he did doesn’t excuse the OP’s mother’s behaviour either. Frankly what appears to be deliberate parental alienation uncaring of the damage it has done to the OP shows a deeply unpleasant and manipulative character. I wouldn’t want to be married to someone like that. Would anyone?

Add in that the OP’s mother appears to have shredded her ex’s character for doing something (leaving a relationship with children and having children with someone else) that she had already done.

It's a positive thing that you're starting to question things OP. Doesn't make it any less shitty a situation for you to have gone through or make your current feelings less valid, but as pp have said, parents breaking up has a deep, long-lasting impact on their children however 'well' they do it.

Your parents, particularly you mum, didn't do it very 'well' and you're the one carrying the pain and hurt.

FWIW, I would ignore all the posters who are telling you that you shouldn't be taking your father's money. If he wants to give it to you and you're comfortable taking it, then it's some sort of relationship you're having. If I was your dad, I would want you to take the money I give you, as it's letting me help and support you in some way iykwim.

When I read your OP I thought you had behaved really badly and was quite shocked that you never grew out of those feelings.

But having thought about it some more and having read the other responses it does sound like perhaps you were let down by your DM. You have obviously carried her pain which caused you to lash out at your DF and his wife. I am surprised nobody pulled you up on that and explained that life isn't black and white, you don't own your dad's sex life and that attempting to blackmail him was out of line (although understandable given your age at the time and anger which was clearly not being managed). Maybe your DM felt alone and was scared to lose you as an ally. Tbh siblings are normally the ones to tell you the harsh truth when others are too polite to, but perhaps they didn't have that relationship with you due to the age gaps? I do think that when kids without close siblings around them go through difficult times it is harder for them because they feel more alone with it and there is nobody to tell them to move on (while the adults are busy being sensitive to the child's needs and sometimes making too many allowances for them).

The mother wasn't left to raise kids solo, the dad kept contact until op decided otherwise and provided financially, even when op cut him off, which alot of men wouldn't do.

The mother was wrong to tell the op "it's up to her" whether she sees her dad or not, especially as a child. My dd has regularly fallen out with her dad as they butt heads alot, and she'd said "I don't wanna see him" or "I hate him," etc. But I've always encouraged her to have a relationship with him and kept to the routine and now as an older teen they have a great relationship.

Unless there is abuse or violence, mothers should always encourage a relationship with their dcs father.

I do agree with you @BluebirdRobin that the OP should have been encouraged to have a relationship with her dad but I just can't blame the mum for his terrible parenting.

He bolted without checking DD was ok and mum was effectively left to raise her kids solo because he left in an immature way and started a new family so soon after. He wasn't offering to take his existing daughter with him so Mum was de facto parent.

Providing financially for a 10 year old you've created is the absolute bare minimum expectation. That's regardless of whether she sees you or not after you've left her mum for another woman.

The starting of a new family was optional but the rest was inevitable really, parents splitting does lead to them living separately and most children do stay with their mum in their childhood home, I doubt moving to a house share with dad would have been the preferable option.

he had a child 2 years after leaving. Is that really “soon”? And no one knows the history, the pregnancy may not have been planned, shit happens.

you also don’t know whether he wanted to take his dd with him, he may have been acting practically- bear in mind o/p’s mum had two other children, he’s be separating siblings, and presumably might have had to force a sale of their family home to afford accommodation for dd and himself. That and the fact a court would be extremely unlikely to remove main caring responsibilities from a mother and give them to a father.

o/p has never spoken to him. She doesn’t know what might have been “terrible parenting”, what was him thinking he was making the best decisions for her not taking her from her mum and brothers, or what is her mum’s take on parenting.

The wedding invite for example, the mum “giving a piece of her mind” why? What would she have done if he hadn’t invited her? Maybe he genuinely wanted her there so left the door open so she could attend if she wanted. I don’t get what’s so horrific about continuing to offer a child the opportunity to come back into his life after she’s repeatedly cut contact.

even now 15 years later he is still holding the door open while she refuses to speak to him or hear his side. That’s some patience.

I have a lot of divorced friends (I’m old). The amount of kids that don’t speak to their dads as adults, usually because they only have one side of the story and won’t hear the other out of loyalty. Because a good dad won’t bitch about his ex to the kids, so they only have her in their ears…

It sounds like you were faaaar too involved in the ins and outs of a relationship breakdown in which the details should have been kept between adults!

@Notanotherusername4321 but is it 'some patience'? Or just the absolute minimum of what a parent should do for a child. Invite them to a wedding, chuck them some cash and let them know you'll always be there. I don't think that's anything remarkable. And yes, I do think two years is too soon to move on personally.

If it were OP's dad, I'd have left the marriage and gone to live on my own nearby for a bit while focusing on my relationship with my daughter before starting another family and causing a new set of problems. A kid's needs trump an adult's needs in my opinion. It was a formative period in OPs life - would it have killed the guy to hold off for a while on a new relationship while his daughter was clearly distraught and giving ultimatums. I know so many adults who are messed up for life by fathers leaving in an immature way. While I hope OP gets therapy and support and it would be great if they could reconcile, I just don't think his behaviour was ok.

I think you're right op. He could've tried harder, he got swept away and put his needs before his child's. He wasn't father material. Unfortunately some people who aren't, fo become fathers. He doesn't deserve to be your df or a dgf to your dc. These things become more apparent when you have children of your own and experience such love. Focus on you, you have a beautiful family, you lost nothing. Maybe it'd have been worse, growing up with someone untrustworthy. Things could've manifested in worse ways, if he was unhappy. Forget about him, if you can,and count your blessings. It is hurtful though...

It's all too easy to parent with no substance today.. Children rely on their parents to put them first, the entire essence of how attachments are formed is based on the imperative that a child is helpless, vulnerable and depends on their parents to meet their needs. When one or both parents don't meet the child's needs this has long standing consequences emotionally for a child. You don't get ''get over it'' when you turn 18.

The prevalence of attachment issues evident in divorced children speaks for itself and goes a long way to explain the feelings OP is describing. This is not something anyone who leaves their children to pursue their own wants at the expenses of their children's needs wants to hear. It is much easier to make out the child is 'bad' / 'wrong' / 'unreasonable' or blame the other parent for ''alienating''. Expecting children to flip a switch and happily adjust to a new family overnight is wildly selfish and borderline ridiculous. An adult would struggle to do this, let alone a child. It serves the parent's wishes only. This isn't about saying unhappy couples should stay together, no one thinks that. It's about putting your children first, not expecting too much of them, knowing your own child. They depend upon it.

Who alienated whom? Arguably, here, the Father alienated himself. He clearly did not know his daughter well enough to understand she could not cope with his behaving this way. Or maybe he didn't think, or maybe he knew and she was acceptable collateral damage.

Does that mean OP should not reconcile with her Dad? No. Only OP can decide if that is right for her or not, and she posted her trying to work that out. Rather than support, she's received some very unkind, judgmental messages which lack empathy and compassion. It's a sad old world out there...

I do t understand why you have him an ultimatum to be honest.
Loads of parents divorce and still have relationships with their offspring.

I've just re-read the original post. OP asks what if she regrets not letting her dad into her life and that's the crux of the matter, I think, not past recriminations and grudges, or posters deciding which of her parents was most to blame.

Easier said than done, as part of her letting her dad into her life now (if she chooses to) will involve talking about the past, which will be painful for both of them.

I think do some more thinking OP, if possible with a counsellor or therapist so that you really have space to think and talk.

I mean, with hindsight it has been disastrous for her and for their relationship.

But, at the time, I don't think her DF could be expected to know his child would behave the way she did and keep it up for so long. Many people are products of divorce but very few cut the parent that initiated it out of their life for 15 years (!).

It seems to me that it escalated in an extreme manner and the OP was never held accountable for her behaviour. She effectively had a quite normal 10 year old stroppy reaction which was indulged by those around her, so she never had the reality check needed to move forward. This ultimately ended up hurting her. I really don't think continuing to tell her her reaction is valid is going to help her.

You mention abandonment issues. Yes she may have abandonment issues, but the DF didn't actually abandon her. She refused to let him into her life and alienated him from his grandchildren, despite his efforts, and constructed a very black and white narrative to justify it.

@Lilgamesh2

To her, it was abandonment. Invalidating her feelings / experience and suggesting she needed to be ‘held accountable’ for her behaviour betrays a complete lack of appreciation of how traumatic these scenarios can be for children. Trauma leaves life long scars.

It’s difficult for me to understand how you can place all the responsibility on the child while absolving the adult.

FYI - rejection is a common trauma response ….

I think it's very sad that you are still so angry and have never come to terms with it. It must be hard.

I don't agree with your DH, if you feel there has been too much water gone under the bridge then he needs to accept that and not push you to make contact. From your posts it sounds to me like no matter what the other side of the story is, you will still feel the same anyway.

Dragging all that pain and anger around for all those years must take it's toll. You are only 25, still young enough to put the chip down and not have it affect you for decades to come - these things tend to fester and grow and you don't want to wake up in your 50s and 60s still angry and resentful.

He told my mum he didn't want any more kids.

Then went and had 2 more (and a stepson).

What I've never had is an apology for everything that he did to us and how he handled it

Maybe it's too late now? I should have had one at the start

At ten years old, there’s no way you should have been aware of this

And this is probably how your older brothers felt when you came along.

That's a horrible thing to say

I don’t think anyone is blaming o/p.

what the majority are saying is that mum bears some of the blame- she’s made the trauma worse by confirming and reinforcing the “abandonment” thinking, when it appears dad has always been there and would have reestablished the relationship at any time had the o/p chose to.

mum should have helped o/p deal with her feelings, not exacerbated them.

What are you expecting an apology for?

for always financially supporting you?

for always keeping in touch and making it clear he wanted contact, even when you kept rejecting him?

how does he know you are expecting an apology? You don’t know his side, and refuse to listen to it. Maybe he did everything he could, you just weren’t told about it in the same way your mum told you every detail.

as for more kids, accidents happen. Or Maybe he didn’t want more kids with your mum rather than any at all. If the relationship wasn’t great he was being very sensible not bringing more kids into it.
Your mum went on to have more kids after a divorce, why is that not the same?