Married Couples with Children

[Aquarius1234]

Why do some married people act like being married with kids is better than being single?
That they are more well rounded and wouldn't be able to so their professions and whatever else if they didn't have a family?

@Needtoseethatbiggerpicture

"as a society we absolutely value married with children over any other kind of household. We shouldn’t. "

No. I disagree. Children are happier better off, in a nuclear happy family, where the marriage is happy. No judgment on children from a single parental household. There are good reasons why they are better off, than being in an unhappy household.

But if you are trying to argue that the children in a happily married family / nuclear family is not the best, then you are completely wrong and skating on thin ice . All studies show differently.

Ds1 just gone to uni, and I enjoyed very much revising with him and testing him his A-level psychology and A-level sociology. Both studied the nuclear family, and all the studies literally 100% of them, research say that every child is better off in a nuclear family with two parents together if that family is happy. and there is literally no disputing this. so your argument doesn't stand against all the research and every piece of evidence so far.

@TheGirlWhoTamedTheDragon

I did say many. Not all. Note that.

OP if you don’t want to get married then don’t, but some of us like being married and having kids and that’s fine too. For me being married and having my DC is an achievement. It doesn’t mean those who are single don’t have their own achievements. We are all different.

Ah, that one? I was going to reply to the OP but won’t bother now I know it’s just goadyness 😁

This is so weird. I never thougt being married was some sort of status thing

No. I disagree. Children are happier better off, in a nuclear happy family, where the marriage is happy. No judgment on children from a single parental household. There are good reasons why they are better off, than being in an unhappy household.But if you are trying to argue that the children in a happily married family / nuclear family is not the best, then you are completely wrong and skating on thin ice . All studies show differently

FFS. Read what I wrote, not what you think I wrote. But nice opportunity to have a dig, eh?

We should value all types of family and households. Your post just shows once again that single parents and their children are viewed as nothing other than second class citizens. It’s not unreasonable to suggest that’s a fucking shit place to be if you’re a single parent or a child brought up by a single parent. People making all sorts of assumptions about your happiness for a start. It’s not wrong to request that we take stock and value all people, regardless of household status or upbringing going, is it?

I’ve been single for years. People like you who spout this utter shite make people like me feel second best, regardless of the work we put in and the achievements we make. I am not a second class parent, my children are not second best, just because their parent’s marriage broke down. They didn’t overnight become different people, just because they had a difficult experience. If you’ve read all the academic research, you will also know maternal education levels are a reliable predictor in positive outcomes for children, regardless of marital status. You will also know that whilst it might be better to be brought up in a nuclear family statistically, outcomes for children in nuclear and single parent families are not that far apart. Some children from seemingly advantaged backgrounds will struggle, a few more from more disadvantaged backgrounds will also struggle. Mainly, most children will grow up and do OK at life, regardless of background and their parent’s relationship status.

You also said:

Whereas many of us can spot a good'un a Mile off. And have happy 20+ year marriages.

Which implies you think you have some kind of superior level of judgement, rather than recognising you were simply lucky not to be duped by a liar.

Why do some married people act like being married with kids is better than being single?

Well, obviously they used to be single and childless before they got married and had children. Having tried both, they are qualified to know which suits them best.

-The average divorce rate in the UK is now 42% and is declining each year.

-The higher the level of education you have, the less likely a couple is to divorce, so would explain the lawyers, doctors etc all being married.

-Children of two parent families statistically fair better in adult life than in single parent families.

-There is more financial stability.

I can think of very few positives of being in a single parent family, unless you have escaped awful circumstances.

Why do you think being a single parent is better?

@Needtoseethatbiggerpicture

You clearly have an agenda and bone to pick.

I never said anything that didn't agree with most of what you said. But your own paranoia reads things where they aren't even said.

@TheGirlWhoTamedTheDragon

It's nothing to do with luck.

Yes, it is. You aren't some supremely wise person, you were just lucky that you happened to marry somebody who turned out to be genuinely nice and stay that way. Your posts imply that it us women's fault if their husbands become abusive, because they weren't as smart as you were to pick a better one. In many cases it is not foreseeable, there are no warning signs, people change. So stop playing to the OP's stereotype and being smug. Most people do not think this way and you need to follow the mumsnet advice re. head having a gentle wobble.

Both can be true. It’s not all luck to end up with someone good and we all know people who make terrible choices in partner. Equally not all circumstances are in our control nor are all relationship breakdowns foreseeable or preventable (or indeed desirable!). Saying something isn’t by luck isn’t to say that it’s your fault.

The average divorce rate in the UK is now 42% and is declining each year

I am not convinced this is the positive it could be. Declining benefit rates, particularly for families with more than 2 children, undoubtedly mean that some people stay married when perhaps they shouldn’t. The current economic situation will also have people sticking with it for the foreseeable.

The higher the level of education you have, the less likely a couple is to divorce, so would explain the lawyers, doctors etc all being married

can you point me to the source of that information/research, please?

Children of two parent families statistically fair better in adult life than in single parent families

As already said, maternal education is a reliable predictor of outcomes for children. Children in single parent families only marginally fair worse.

There is more financial stability

Yeah, statistically, maybe. But single parents can also be high earners. And many have ex partners who take maintenance seriously. This is a considerable improvement on a low-income but two-income household. And even better than having someone who is financially abusive, or who drinks, or gambles family money away. IInheritance, lottery wins etc can also make life financially stable.

I can think of very few positives of being in a single parent family, unless you have escaped awful circumstances

That’s because it suits you to think of single parent families as being beneath you. Awful circumstances aside, there are plenty of reasons it can work and isn’t some kind of precursor to a wretched life.

You clearly have an agenda and bone to pick

No. just sick of idiots telling me I’m poor, a bit stupid and my children will amount to nothing at all. My eldest is a supervisor at aged 18, less than 12 months after taking up his desk job. He’s also doing a degree and got a full set of A grades for his A levels. By your standards he should be out mugging old ladies about now,

@Aquarius1234 I feel as though you are surrounded by what Bridget Jones described as 'smug marrieds' and I do get what she, and you meant. It's true that some people see marriage and children as the ultimate achievement. Like it makes them more mature and grown up (whatever that means!) and those who have not done these things have somehow failed.

The good news is that this is actually a load of bollocks. Perhaps you need to surround yourself with people and media which has an alternative focus. I am wondering if you come from/live in a small town or village!

WRT the single mother/married parents debate, one happy parent is always better for a child than two unhappy ones.

@Needtoseethatbiggerpicture

"No. just sick of idiots telling me I’m poor, a bit stupid and my children will amount to nothing at all. "

No one said anything of the sort. I certainly never mentioned money/being poor. Neither did anyone else. That's your own paranoia.

Not being stupid.
Not amounting to nothing.

No one said any of those things.

Hm. Yes, I feel OP's responses are vey child-like

Very selective quoting there.

The OP was talking about marriage. I believe marriage is a good thing. Not always obviously, but generally yes I think it's good. It didn't need to turn into a single parent bashing. I'm simply saying a good marriage is a good thing. Most would agree.

No, it did not need to turn into single-parent bashing. Sadly it was your posts that started selectively quoting the evidence about how marriage impacts children (which was not part of the OP's question anyway). As another poster pointed out to you, the best indicator of child outcomes is maternal education level, not marital situation of parents. The next is income level. Studies also show that if parents divorce but remain amicable there is no statistical difference in outcomes for children. In fact when you stratify the groups the children who suffer are those who end up in the middle of parental toxicity - married or not - and of course those whose parents decide to "blend" families i.e. force children to live with an unrelated adult. Divorce in itself does not do damage overall when controlling for income and other factors.

It's far more complex that your simplistic posts suggest. So maybe get off your bandwagon that was unrelated to the post to begin with. If you're married and happy just enjoy that. You don't need to try to justify it by trying to put other people down.

So if anything, based on the evidence rather than your biases, the best thing women can do for their children is get educated, maintain a career so that they can adequately provide for their children if it's necessary to divorce, campaign for appropriate levels of child maintenance and also encourage women to leave bad relationships before things deteriorate to a level where parental relationships cannot be salvaged to a level where amicable co-parenting is possible.

@Needtoseethatbiggerpicture

www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/12/04/education-and-marriage/

Researchers at the National Center for Health Statistics estimate that 78% of college-educated women who married for the first time between 2006 and 2010 could expect their marriages to last at least 20 years. But among women who have a high school education or less, the share is only 40%.

-This is just one of many studies you can find.

I don’t find single aren’t families beneath me. I was raised in a single parent family and had a child young. I married at age 25 and have been for past 8 years. I would much rather be married and children seem to be better off. Doesn’t mean single parents can’t be good parents and raise well rounded children, it’s just statistically more likely to happen in a two parent family.

Sorry * I do not find single parent families beneath me.