MIL reaction to our proposal to begin fostering children. AIBU to find this upsetting?

[Happypomegranate]

We FaceTimed our in-laws on Xmas day and mentioned our intention to apply to become foster carers. This is something we have both wanted to do for years, but have been previously unable due to work commitments and living in a small flat. We’ve been very fortunate and we now live in a big house and we are financially secure enough that I don’t have to work. I still do a little bit of part time care work but can give this up to focus on fostering. MIL initially said she thought our DD was too young which is a fair point to make. We have a toddler and will not be having anymore biological children. I said we would discuss with the LA but we could wait until DD was in school if necessary but that we just wanted to get the ball rolling as we know how long these things can take. But it later became apparent that she was very against the idea of us fostering at any point in the future and I don’t believe my DD’s age has anything to do with it. She used language such as ‘it will be someone you don’t know’, ‘there could be problems’, and ‘troubled children’. We have done our research and we are aware that the children may have additional needs, mental health and/or behavioural problems, but every child in need of a foster placement is different and I feel it’s not right to stereotype. As for children that may come with challenges, I feel it would be our job as the foster parents to try and work through the challenges with the children. I don’t understand why she doesn’t want us to support vulnerable children, it’s just bizarre to me. It hurts because I had an extremely abusive childhood, struggled with mental health in my early adulthood and I’ve worked really hard to get to a place where I am happy, stable and resilient. I feel I could have a lot to give as a foster carer. My DH is lovely and a great dad, and I believe he’d be a fantastic foster carer but he had a drastically different upbringing from me. Think well to-do, independent school, etc. We are an unlikely but very happy pair. I thought she would be supportive but she’s actively against it and I’m not sure why it bothers me so much because it’s ultimately my and my husbands decision to apply, not hers. AIBU to be upset?

@Miss03852 Logan's mother is at least if not more to blame for his death and deserves to rot in prison. She allowed this to happen. She participated. She stood by and actively encouraged.
I hope her other children have a chance at a normal life.
She is no 'mother'

Angharad is a brash, foul mouthed, woman. I live around the corner from the flat where she was living with Logan and his baby brother. My dd was in Logan’s class in school. I don’t like Angharad. But for all she is she didn’t kill Logan. She deserves everything she gets because she chose to watch him die rather than get him medical help. Evil cow!

I just noticed your post saying Logan died by the hands of his parents. What?!! I hope Ben Mwangi doesn’t see that post. He was miles away and hadn’t seen his son for years. Everyone in Sarn and Tondu knows who killed Logan. It wasn’t his mother and it wasn’t his father.

Poor Logan 💔
SS have blood on their hands. They didn’t kill him directly but their crass decisions to put Craig Mulligan in a two bedroom flat with two adults who are not his parents and 2 children already known to Social Services because of John Cole’s list of offences, including GBH of his own daughter contributed to Logan’s death. They put him in an overcrowded flat with no bedroom of his own ffs! He slept on the sofa in the living room.

There has since been an enquiry into the failings of Multi agencies involved. Bridgend Social Services have had a right slamming, not before time. That doesn’t help Logan though does it?

OP if you’re happy to put your baby through unnecessary trauma go for it. Your the mother so you make the decisions. There have been many experienced foster carers and children of foster carers relaying their experiences of fostering to you.

Personally I wouldn’t put my dc through that at a very young age. I don’t trust Social Services to protect them. They have proven their worth time and again

I just noticed your post saying Logan died by the hands of his parents. What?!! I hope Ben Mwangi doesn’t see that post. He was miles away and hadn’t seen his son for years. Everyone in Sarn and Tondu knows who killed Logan. It wasn’t his mother and it wasn’t his father.

I said ‘the parents’ and clarified several times that I meant his mother and stepfather. But I will be sure to pass on to the courts that you apparently know his mother had nothing to do with it and I’m sure she’ll be released ASAP.

The point I was making is that this was not the case of a ‘monster’ teen randomly attacking a well loved and cared for little boy. This was the case of two adults (plus a teen) killing a child through child abuse and neglect, helped by the lack of intervention from social services.

But I’m sure you, as the parent of a classmate, know far more than the police and the courts, so your word on the mothers innocence is of course far more relevant than their findings.

Did you attend the trial every day and listen to the evidence, verdicts and Judges comments? I did. As did most of Sarn. Please don’t tell me Logan’s parents were responsible for the blows that killed little Logan. They weren’t. Fact! I don’t care what you’ve read in the papers.

OP can do whatever she wants. Most people have tried to give her reasons why her fostering with a young child is not a good idea. If she’s banking on Social Services protecting her baby from trauma following decisions she’s made she’ll have a rude wake up call. At the end of the day it’s her decision 🤷🏻‍♀️

I didn’t say his parents were responsible. I said he was killed by his mother and stepfather with the help of his stepbrother in a campaign of abuse and neglect. That is fact. Whether you like it or not. That’s why those three people were convicted. That’s what that means - that they were guilty of causing his death.

Are you saying Logan's mother is the victim of a miscarriage of justice? Because what you're saying doesn't align.

@Frogsinspace

YYY to your question.
I think it cuts right to the heart of the issue.

@Petros9

Why couldn't the calling from God wait until you had given to the children He gave you everything you had in you as parents?

Then you could have done your all for the foster children, with no juggling of the needs involved?

I'm a Christian, and I know the imperative you speak of, but why not one thing at a time? Why assume your children have the same calling?

That's a good question.

But the call came at a very specific time and we felt that it was something we had to act on at that point. It was also a situation where we had to trust God with our own children's welfare- a leap of faith, I suppose. If we had waited, we'd never have fostered, as my wife died last year, with our children still teenagers. That would have been a missed calling. Our children's upbringing would have been more straightforward, but they would not have the variety of experience to call on that they have now.

And ten foster children wouldn't have benefitted from being looked after in our home, within our family. Some of them have amazing stories of restoration with their birth families, or were adopted into lovely families and are now thriving. We played a part in those stories and I couldn't be more proud of my children, my wife and myself for that.

After posting on this thread yesterday, I was plagued by memories of my own childhood through the night - and a deep sadness that these threads come up time and time again with an op who doesn’t want to listen because they’ve got a romantic view of fostering and want to play the hero.

I know the op has flounced but thought I’d write for any other followers of this thread who might have similar ideas.

There is very little focus on the biological kids of foster parents. I’m not very sure if there’s much research into it but clearly not enough. We don’t really have a voice. Threads like these have so many of us that come along and say no don’t do it and give reasons and we barely get a response because it doesn’t fit with the narrative. Foster kids are the traumatized ones. We are the privileged ones with so much to learn and gain from the “experience”.

Time and time again we come along to say that’s not true. But our experience is minimized or ignored because someone’s friend’s cousin’s neighbours fostered and their kids are happy.

The truth is, children are not capable of containing their trauma. It spreads. When you foster, you bring it into every crevice of your home. If you are a resilient adult you may have the mechanisms to handle that, which is why there are many fantastic foster parents (with no small dc of their own at home) who do a brilliant job. They are willing to share their own safe space a vulnerable child and what a gift they give.

But EVERY child has a right to a trauma-free home. Including the biological dc. The only reason foster children are placed with families that already have children is that it solves a problem for them. What the bio dc have to lose is so much greater than what they have to learn. But they don’t have a voice so few people care.

I wrote about the attachment issues that arise as the
minimum that can happen. But it can be so much worse. It just takes one really bad placement to ruin your own dcs life.

Them = social services *

You not usually allowed to foster a child older than your youngest child. Thinking you not thinking this through. Wait a few years

This is the other side of the coin perhaps and we have not seen any positive voices on this thread from the birth children of foster carers.

On the subject of research, I had a look at a couple of pieces, one at www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=scholarworks.smith.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi%3Farticle%3D1892%26context%3Dtheses&ved=2ahUKEwirhNrsrZ78AhWjQUEAHZYSBxkQFnoECBMQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0soXB-7VFHZuQW1PaBD2Xu and another at www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=repository.canterbury.ac.uk/download/afae3df1404f870cb70dcb56bb3b04677d18f93340ab87aeb10b8165e4984743/1064026/Presentation%2520for%2520Biological%2520Children%2520in%2520Foster%2520Families%2520final%2520version1.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwirhNrsrZ78AhWjQUEAHZYSBxkQFnoECBoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1YOw9b_qVOJtoQjOwDp5YM.

Sorry for long links. One theme that resonated with me was to do with foster children's families building stronger relationships within their family group- they pull together in the face of challenges. Maybe a case of adversity making you stronger.

Lots to consider on this thread and a range of views, often well-informed, and mostly negative about the idea of fostering when your own children are young. Even as one if the positive voices, I accept that there are perils and drawbacks. I'm glad we did it, my children reflect on it in a generally positive way (though I accept that may change over time, or that the things they say to me are not the full story)- but ultimately it was a Christian calling that we chose to accept.

No I’m certainly not saying Angharad Williamson is innocent. She deserves to rot in the bowels of hell for all eternity, for her part in Logan’s suffering. There is nothing to suggest she delivered the blows that ended Logan’s life though. You believe what you want.

What I think pp is saying is OP has commented that she is pissed off when proffessionals say victims of abuse can and do go on to abuse. Craig Mulligan is proof that some children who have been abused certainly abuse others because abuse is their normal.

It would be interesting to hear the techniques OP would use if she was presented with a 14 year old abuse victim who put her in constant fear for her own and her baby daughters lives and the SW turned a blind eye.

The foster parents in this case were terrified of their foster child yet were very experienced foster parents. How would OP deal with it we’ll never know as she seems to not like the reality of fostering and has flounced.

As pp has said there will be positives to fostering. It must be very rewarding when things work out for the child but we all know there are horrors too. No foster carer is able to book a “Blond haired, blue eyed, sweet 4 year old”. They get what their given and have to live with it for however long it takes. And so do their children.

@Happypomegranate Then you best prepare yourself because the fostering agencies WILL using your past against you, when you apply! So best you get used to it now. If you don't want it used against you, don't apply. Because you will find the scrutiny you are put under to be absolutely unbearable.

Thank you for this thoughtful post. I too have a visceral reaction to romantic notions of fostering and adoption. Most crucially I would say that anyone who denies the issues with either their own DC or any proposed foster DC or thinks they have easy solutions to them is not cut out to foster.

I'll believe what the courts have decided as there has been a thorough investigation and I doubt anyone but her knows better.

The OP is well are that victims of abuse can be abusive. But she is sensitive to the presumption that they will be because it isn't true and it's prejudiced. That's fair enough. What would be a problem would be if she was more trusting than another foster carer would be as a result of having less prejudice - if it made her more naïve to the detriment of her safe guarding abilities. Just having a problem with the prejudice isn't evidence of that. I wasn't abused, I have fostered and I completely see why she's a bit defensive.

Thank you @Redcisco for sharing. A very thought-provoking post which should be mandatory reading for any parent thinking of fostering while they still have young children in the home.

I can also tell you it isn't the case that you book a particular type of child, you're right, although many younger children would fit that description and be easy enough to care for, but nor do you take who you're given for as long as it's decided. You're not speaking from personal experience. If you say you won't take that child, they don't turn up with the child. If you say you're going away for the weekend on Friday and child must be collected earlier, that will have to take the child. I've seen them do it. How ridiculous to imagine SS can force you to have someone in your home. They can pressure if you let them. They can't force you.

@Reindeersnooker The OP is well are that victims of abuse can be abusive. But she is sensitive to the presumption that they will be because it isn't true and it's prejudiced. That's fair enough.

The OP and some other posters have latched on to “foster children are abusive” /“not all of them” , which is not what’s even being said. At all!

People aren’t saying these young children will be abusers - that is rarer. But there are a series of behaviours in foster children which negatively impact the other children in the home, to the point of causing them discomfort and trauma in their own home.

A five year old displaying oversexualised behaviour is not an abuser. But it can traumatise another child in the home. Same with false accusations, self harm, making threats, there’s a great long list of behaviour which doesn’t make a foster child an abuser - they are a small traumatised child! - but does spread the trauma to the other children in the home.

This is what OP and others are wilfully ignoring.

OP may think “oh if I foster them as a baby/very young they won’t show signs of trauma”, but you’ll be shocked how that often isn’t the case, and as the child gets older they are still so impacted by their traumatic beginning, especially if contact with the birth family is ongoing (as it almost always is).

@Redcisco I had a sleepless night too as a direct result of reading this thread. I don't think the people that describing in vivid detail the abuse and suffering of small children realise can be like opening a wound for others. Particularly the details about the Logan Mwangi case. The unsubstantiated details from people supposedly living in the same place are dangerous and I really don't think @MNHQ should allow them to remain on the thread.

@Reindeersnooker SS can pressure you VERY hard, and it takes a very resilient foster carer to stand up for themselves and say “you’re picking the child up now or I’m dropping them at the town hall.” And even then SS will say “okay we’re picking them up in the morning.” And then come the following afternoon. So it’s not true to say it’s ridiculous that you’d have someone in your home that you don’t want - of course it happens. I’m getting the impression OP doesn’t have that kind of resilience and ability to stand up to SS when needed, either.

I think you’re being a bit disingenuous, there are plenty of foster carers who can tell you how very hard it can be to get SS to end a placement. Maybe your LA is better than others.

And fair enough to say “If you say you won't take that child, they don't turn up with the child”, but they can and do completely lie about a child’s background in order to get them housed, and place children in homes which aren’t suitable (outside the approved age range/approved number of kids). SS are very good at pressure tactics.

My father lived in a family who fostered since he was around 9 or ten. His siblings were younger.
He's very clear that whilst they felt sorry for the foster children, all his biological siblings and him suffered. He acknowledges a lingering resentment, but if you look at the way he deals with confrontation or danger I'm pretty certain there is deep trauma too. His youngest sibling is an alcoholic and emotionally unstable. His other sibling married a man at sixteen who got prosecuted as a pedophile and went to jail in her mind twenties. I do wonder if there is a link.
My grandma was adopted herself and did it for similar reasons to the op. However, interestingly enough all the siblings agree she was cold and cruel to the kids, and created a weird us Vs them dynamic. She was also deeply religious and would have considered it a calling but her children would not describe her actual behind closed doors behaviour as very Christian or kind.
It's all a bit sad because as my dad is placid and well adjusted he never said anything to his parents so they'd be walking around talking about how their children had no problems and benefited from it. He just got very good at masking his true feelings. A habit he has carried through life and I wish I could rid him of because it's not healthy for him.
The reality of it is you have to be a very special person to withstand the realities of fostering and do a good job. Social services are desperate and people with a good understanding of their own limitations won't do it. It's a perfect storm for.things to go wrong.